Comments on: The Mistakes: Mountains from Mole Hills http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/ Sports Media Bias Exposed Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:23:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3911 By: Danny K http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-6185 Danny K Mon, 17 Mar 2008 07:23:34 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-6185 MODI, the big contracts do have bearing on trade possibilities in the sense that no one will take them. If we used that money wisely on decent, young players who deserve that much money, or at least on shorter contracts, we would be more flexible to trade. Panzeh, I agree that they go either way. But with a big 5-year contract, it hurts your trading possibility for 4 years, and then you have an expiring contract to trade one year. Is it worth it? MODI, the big contracts do have bearing on trade possibilities in the sense that no one will take them. If we used that money wisely on decent, young players who deserve that much money, or at least on shorter contracts, we would be more flexible to trade.

Panzeh, I agree that they go either way. But with a big 5-year contract, it hurts your trading possibility for 4 years, and then you have an expiring contract to trade one year. Is it worth it?

]]> By: Panzeh http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3858 Panzeh Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:14:35 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3858 Big contracts go either way. Though it is difficult to trade a highly-paid player in the midst of a big contract, this contract makes him much more attractive in trades later on when it is due to expire soon. Big contracts go either way. Though it is difficult to trade a highly-paid player in the midst of a big contract, this contract makes him much more attractive in trades later on when it is due to expire soon.

]]> By: MODI http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3832 MODI Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:14:47 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3832 No, I wouldn't do that Pau trade either! But that scenario is giving up much more than LA and Pau ain't the right guy for us like the lakers. I honestly don't see the logic at the end here. JJ's contract has absolutely no bearing on trade possibilities. He was an irrelevant free agent signing. If we never signed him, we would be no closer or farther from a trade. Also, we had absolutely no chance at KG. It was Chicago who probably had the best chance (and for Gasol). Here is the thing: if you are $1 over the cap or $50 million, it makes absolutely no difference for the Knicks. BTW, I think that we will end up getting Artest... maybe even as a mid-level exception... maybe wishful thinking... No, I wouldn’t do that Pau trade either! But that scenario is giving up much more than LA and Pau ain’t the right guy for us like the lakers.

I honestly don’t see the logic at the end here. JJ’s contract has absolutely no bearing on trade possibilities. He was an irrelevant free agent signing. If we never signed him, we would be no closer or farther from a trade. Also, we had absolutely no chance at KG. It was Chicago who probably had the best chance (and for Gasol). Here is the thing: if you are $1 over the cap or $50 million, it makes absolutely no difference for the Knicks.

BTW, I think that we will end up getting Artest… maybe even as a mid-level exception… maybe wishful thinking…

]]> By: Danny K http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3818 Danny K Sun, 03 Feb 2008 01:04:05 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3818 Oh, LeBron's going nowhere. Yeah, I didn't mean to mention him. I know they switched picks with the Bulls, but they gave away 2 lottery picks and a 2nd rounder and they got back a 22nd(?) overall. I know the Knicks have Marbury and Malik to trade, but I wouldn't want to trade away draft picks anymore. The Lakers now have Kobe and Gasol. Their draft picks are clearly going to be in the mid-20s. I wouldn't want the Knicks to trade away more lottery picks (or even 15-20). If the Knicks could trade the 2008 and 2009 1st rounders and Malik Rose and David Lee for Pau Gasol, I wouldn't do it in a million years. That's why I'm saying it's bad to get people like the JJs on the book for big contracts. It would be better to sign more conservative contracts. This offseason, we should have traded Marbury to the Heat for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis. Then we definitely could have been in the running for someone like Gasol, Kidd, Marion, Artest, Ray Allen or even KG. We would have to give up Lee in a trade for KG, but I'm fine with that. We could also probably get Artest easily without giving up Lee. We're very limited, and I think that's a big problem. Oh, LeBron’s going nowhere. Yeah, I didn’t mean to mention him.
I know they switched picks with the Bulls, but they gave away 2 lottery picks and a 2nd rounder and they got back a 22nd(?) overall.
I know the Knicks have Marbury and Malik to trade, but I wouldn’t want to trade away draft picks anymore. The Lakers now have Kobe and Gasol. Their draft picks are clearly going to be in the mid-20s. I wouldn’t want the Knicks to trade away more lottery picks (or even 15-20). If the Knicks could trade the 2008 and 2009 1st rounders and Malik Rose and David Lee for Pau Gasol, I wouldn’t do it in a million years.
That’s why I’m saying it’s bad to get people like the JJs on the book for big contracts. It would be better to sign more conservative contracts. This offseason, we should have traded Marbury to the Heat for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis. Then we definitely could have been in the running for someone like Gasol, Kidd, Marion, Artest, Ray Allen or even KG. We would have to give up Lee in a trade for KG, but I’m fine with that. We could also probably get Artest easily without giving up Lee.
We’re very limited, and I think that’s a big problem.

]]> By: MODI http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3802 MODI Sat, 02 Feb 2008 05:31:40 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3802 Danny K, thanks for posting. Actually the Knicks can combine soon to be expiring contracts with young players to pull off a deal. Marbury and Malik come off after next year, so that is a viable option. Look, the Lakers just got Pau Gasol for Kwame's expiring contract and very late 1st rounders... Note: the Knicks gave up one pick for Curry and one swap (Knicks got Wilson Chandler) No matter how you slice it, Lebron ain't getting traded!!! Danny K, thanks for posting. Actually the Knicks can combine soon to be expiring contracts with young players to pull off a deal. Marbury and Malik come off after next year, so that is a viable option. Look, the Lakers just got Pau Gasol for Kwame’s expiring contract and very late 1st rounders…

Note: the Knicks gave up one pick for Curry and one swap (Knicks got Wilson Chandler)

No matter how you slice it, Lebron ain’t getting traded!!!

]]> By: Danny K http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3801 Danny K Sat, 02 Feb 2008 04:30:49 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3801 *Forget about Cleveland. First I was going to say: Imagine what they’d have to give up to convince Cleveland to take Curry/ and Nate/Balkmanin a trade for LeBron. Then I changed my mind. *Forget about Cleveland. First I was going to say:
Imagine what they’d have to give up to convince Cleveland to take Curry/ and Nate/Balkmanin a trade for LeBron.
Then I changed my mind.

]]> By: Danny K http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-3771 Danny K Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:59:05 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-3771 Hey man, you're doing a good job making this argument. I have one objection that I think is important. The is a problem with being over the cap, and it has nothing to do with free agents. The problem with all the big contracts (for players like Jeffries, Q, James, Randolph) putting us over the cap is that we can't trade for good players. Any tradeable good player would have an expensive price tag. Because the Knicks are over the cap, they have to give back close-to-equal amounts of salary, which isn't really a bad thing on its own. However, no team wants to take on the contracts the Knicks and give up a great player, unless the Knicks include multiple 1st rounders. I mean, the Knicks gave up two 1st-rounders for Curry (luckily it didn't matter much). Imagine what they'd have to give up to convince Cleveland to take Randolph/Curry/Crawford+Q and Nate/Balkman/Chandler in a trade for Baron Davis or Arenas any top-20 player. That's why the contracts mess them up. Hey man, you’re doing a good job making this argument. I have one objection that I think is important.
The is a problem with being over the cap, and it has nothing to do with free agents. The problem with all the big contracts (for players like Jeffries, Q, James, Randolph) putting us over the cap is that we can’t trade for good players. Any tradeable good player would have an expensive price tag. Because the Knicks are over the cap, they have to give back close-to-equal amounts of salary, which isn’t really a bad thing on its own. However, no team wants to take on the contracts the Knicks and give up a great player, unless the Knicks include multiple 1st rounders. I mean, the Knicks gave up two 1st-rounders for Curry (luckily it didn’t matter much). Imagine what they’d have to give up to convince Cleveland to take Randolph/Curry/Crawford+Q and Nate/Balkman/Chandler in a trade for Baron Davis or Arenas any top-20 player.
That’s why the contracts mess them up.

]]> By: MODI http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-675 MODI Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:55:53 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-675 Marc, big bodies are always more important than having 5th and 6th guard. jeffries defense at the three make him a unique player and not even worthy of being in the discussion. Forget Jordan. I just don’t know about Nichols… he really should have gone overseas. However, I will entertain the Nichols over James argument as a spot where reasonable people could disagree. ….but 6 fouls at the center slot is just a valuable piece should we run into Shaq or D.Howard in the playoffs. Houston might spell Nichols… BARF, you freakin nailed it, I think what has been most dissappointing with hater feedback on this article series is that it is so baseless. It is just a bunch of adjectives and rants about “isiah sucks” but no substance. If i had to pick one single area that I am dumbfounded by, it is the inability or unwillingness to try to understand the relative non-meaning of the salary cap for the Knicks. Any review of the facts should answer these questions, but its like the media vultures have repeated it so many times for so long that people’s brain wiring is permanently damaged on the issue. The whole salary cap thing is a scientific study in brainwashing… very disturbing… Marc, big bodies are always more important than having 5th and 6th guard. jeffries defense at the three make him a unique player and not even worthy of being in the discussion. Forget Jordan. I just don’t know about Nichols… he really should have gone overseas. However, I will entertain the Nichols over James argument as a spot where reasonable people could disagree. ….but 6 fouls at the center slot is just a valuable piece should we run into Shaq or D.Howard in the playoffs. Houston might spell Nichols…

BARF, you freakin nailed it, I think what has been most dissappointing with hater feedback on this article series is that it is so baseless. It is just a bunch of adjectives and rants about “isiah sucks” but no substance. If i had to pick one single area that I am dumbfounded by, it is the inability or unwillingness to try to understand the relative non-meaning of the salary cap for the Knicks. Any review of the facts should answer these questions, but its like the media vultures have repeated it so many times for so long that people’s brain wiring is permanently damaged on the issue. The whole salary cap thing is a scientific study in brainwashing… very disturbing…

]]> By: Steady http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-673 Steady Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:47:20 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-673 Marc, I disagree that either JJ was a minor mistake. Having big bodies that can play the 4 and 5 is a good problem to have. They either give you a scout look or become tradeable asset. The devolution of James is another story and if he can't get on track from his knee condition, medical retirement becomes the next option. Someone will help NYK eat that contract. Look at Jeffries' game in DC. He was a difference maker and they would love to have him as they've love Etan Thomas. The DC bigs were always fighting anyway so one was going to be moved one way or another. The problem with JJ's contract is the 15% kicker. In terms of his game, he can play 3 positions but must get his confidence back. The NYK script has already been set since DRAFT night, we the fans are in the dark so we just blog. KFL Marc,
I disagree that either JJ was a minor mistake. Having big bodies that can play the 4 and 5 is a good problem to have. They either give you a scout look or become tradeable asset. The devolution of James is another story and if he can’t get on track from his knee condition, medical retirement becomes the next option. Someone will help NYK eat that contract.

Look at Jeffries’ game in DC. He was a difference maker and they would love to have him as they’ve love Etan Thomas. The DC bigs were always fighting anyway so one was going to be moved one way or another. The problem with JJ’s contract is the 15% kicker. In terms of his game, he can play 3 positions but must get his confidence back. The NYK script has already been set since DRAFT night, we the fans are in the dark so we just blog.

KFL

]]> By: Marc R http://www.cosellout.com/2007/10/03/mountains-from-mole-hills-isiahs-mistakes-in-perspective/comment-page-1/#comment-671 Marc R Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:50:22 +0000 http://www.cosellout.com/?p=132#comment-671 Sadly, the "minor mistakes" of Jared Jeffries and Jerome James are becoming more and more major. The roster spots eaten up by those two are going to be the reason that three of the following four players are not going to make the team: Nichols, Jared Jordan, Fred Jones, and Houston. I'd rather have any of those players over James or Jeffries. Now, is it going to be the difference for even a handful of games? Hard to say, but sometimes these moves can make a legitimate difference. Look at the major minutes that the end of the Knicks' bench had to play towards the end of last season because of injuries. Also, keeping Nichols and Jordan would allow them to be potential contributors in the future. Now they'll have to contribute to another team. Sadly, the “minor mistakes” of Jared Jeffries and Jerome James are becoming more and more major. The roster spots eaten up by those two are going to be the reason that three of the following four players are not going to make the team: Nichols, Jared Jordan, Fred Jones, and Houston.

I’d rather have any of those players over James or Jeffries. Now, is it going to be the difference for even a handful of games? Hard to say, but sometimes these moves can make a legitimate difference. Look at the major minutes that the end of the Knicks’ bench had to play towards the end of last season because of injuries. Also, keeping Nichols and Jordan would allow them to be potential contributors in the future. Now they’ll have to contribute to another team.

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