
This past weekend after being inspired by an over-the-top Steve Nash cover story in Men’s Journal, I literally ran to my computer to write the article: “It’s Not Steve Nash’s Fault: A Study in White Privilege”. Then came the following sequence: I placed the article on Ball Hype and expected a few responses; the article received many favorable reviews; Bethlehem Shoals of AOL Fan House picked it up; article floats around blogosphere; Henry Abott of ESPN’s True Hoop profiles article; more reaction from blogosphere; and Jack McCallum of Sports Illustrated directly responds to article with "The Nash Dilemma" followed by some more follow-up by Abbott. Before issuing the following response to Mr. McCallum, I would like to thank all the previous parties involved in helping to have what I personally believe to be a very important discussion in how sports coverage and racial bias intersect. I would also reiterate that having such an honest and open discussion does absolutely nothing to detract from the brilliant player and even better person that Steve Nash is. By no means are these two issues mutually exclusive.
First things first: And even though Mr. McCallum, a writer that I respect and who I find genuine in his search for truth, took exception to many points in the column, I would like to also thank him for encouraging that the COSELLOUT article be read in its entirety rather than perpetuate the sound-bite-ification of sports journalism. While the original article covered four separate areas of bias (MVP voting; perceived athleticism; political stances; and community service), McCallum limited his commentary to 25% of the article: the MVP vote. Fine. Let’s discuss that one area:
Where We Agree: Mr. McCallum and I both agree that: the Men’s Journal article will not win the Pulitzer Prize this year; Steve Nash did not invent fast-break basketball, and as McCallum puts it, when “much of mainstream America looks at the NBA, they do see race. They see — all together now — the cornrows and the tattoos and the baggy shorts, and they don’t see the player.” He also offers this observation of many fans: “During a year I spent with Nash and the Suns writing a book ("Seven Seconds or Less: My Season on the Bench with the Runnin’ and Gunnin’ Phoenix Suns"), I was urged any number of times to emphasize more strongly the idea that Nash and Company were introducing a different and unique element to the NBA, as if they had invented something never before seen. … I resisted that notion. Nash is not the greatest point guard who ever lived, nor are the Suns the first team to be entertaining and fast-break-oriented.”
So while we both agree that many sports FANS perceptions are biased by race, McCallum ends his agreement when the subject turns to the perceptions of sportsWRITERS that vote for NBA MVPs. McCallum writes: “But then COSELLOUT extrapolates his point about the Men’s Journal article to indict the MVP voters, suggesting that race was a factor among the "90+% white sports-voting body."… “By and large, we in the basketball press do not see color when we vote.”
The first red flag is that he separates sportswriters from the same dynamics that might bias fans. The second red flag is that McCallum is speaking for the “colorblindness” of an entire group. The third is the wishful and dubious concept of "colorblindness" itself. Abbott’s response is helpful here on this third red flag:
"I don’t know that I agree with Cosellout on everything, but I do find it impossible to believe race is no factor in this. I just don’t see the evidence to support the idea that any group of people as large as the voters for this award is enlightened enough to be truly color blind. Every voter might be racially well-meaning (which is all you can ask for, I guess). But that doesn’t mean they’re equally comfortable with player A and player B. It works on your subconscious, you know?"
The “POSSIBILTY” of Race as “Ridiculous Point”: McCallum states: “COSELLOUT suggests that the race issue didn’t get nearly enough attention in ’05, when Nash drubbed Shaquille O’Neal in the voting for his first MVP. It didn’t get nearly enough attention for this reason: It’s a ridiculous point. I can’t remember an easier vote I’ve ever cast.”
Since I already conceded to “agree-to-disagree” and extend the benefit of the doubt in the original article, it would not be productive to belabor a Shaq vs. Nash rehash. But what IS productive is to point out just how dismissive McCallum is in considering that race played a role. Miami Herald Dan Le Batard was virtually the only mainstream writer to bring up the mere POSSIBILTY of race. One single mainstream writer (maybe a couple of others) out of hundreds! What does that say about the sports journalism field? Yes, I would say that the subject did not get enough attention. Consider that if only a handful of more than 100+ writers were even influenced on a sub-conscious level to vote for Nash, then the MVP trophy would have switched hands. To dismiss this possibility as a “ridiculous point” is not only ridiculous itself, but demonstrates a severe lack of understanding of how human bias operates. Even if we were to make the absolutely absurd assumption that not one single sportswriter had overt racial bias, it is simply human nature for people to subconsciously favor those that remind them of themselves. Finally, McCallum views Nash over Shaq as a no-brainer, and then selects Chauncey Billups as MVP for the following year. No more words.
The Dismissals: More McCallum: 1) “Nash’s victory in ’06 wasn’t so clear-cut. …in the end, Nash won. Why? Because he was white? Nonsense.”; 2) “So, what about LeBron, whom COSELLOUT suggests has been overlooked in the MVP voting because of race? I don’t buy it… it had nothing to do with him being black.”; 3) Hey, don’t forget that “ridiculous point” about Shaq. …Two things are striking: Firstly, McCallum is not saying, I don’t THINK race was a factor, he is absolutely certain that it is utter "nonsense". He KNOWS it is not! Secondly, that McCallum can speak for a body of over 100 VOTERS speaks the volume of 100 voices. It is one thing to claim, rightly or wrongly, “I’m not biased”, but it is quite another to make that claim that no one else is either. These statements apart or coupled together smack of arrogance.
The Grand Omission of the “Landslide Vote”: Surprisingly, McCallum focused on the smaller less relevant points about the MVP awards and failed to mention what was CLEARLY the articles’ CENTRAL assertion of MVP bias: THE LANDSLIDE VOTE during the second year. To recap: Lebron’s 2005-2006 season wasn’t just MVP-worthy, it was historic. He joined all-time greats Oscar Robertson, Jerry West and Michael Jordan as the ONLY players in NBA history to average at least 30 points, 7 rebounds and 6 assists in a single season. Please read that short list again. His team won 50 games, and, although he certainly played in a weaker conference, his supporting cast was far worse than Nash’s (Larry Hughes was injured the majority of the year). But McCallum simply did not address the fact that Nash had 57 first place votes to Lebron’s 16. I read the whole article just waiting to see his response… and I was sorely disappointed. How can a direct response to an article not even address the most damning piece of evidence! Perhaps he didn’t address this point because there was simply no rational explanation. Only collective incompetence and bias on the part of voters could explain such a drastic margin.
Who Should Get to Vote?: McCallum writes: “But one of the few things we do well is vote. We do it extremely well. COSELLOUT suggests that MVP voting should be handed over to coaches, and I can tell you that coaches are no more objective than writers when it comes to voting.”
Really? The facts tell us otherwise. General managers and coaches actually plan and strategize against opposing players. In 2006, The Sporting News selected Nash and Lebron as CO-MVPs based on a tie in return-ballots it received from NBA front office management and coaches. The tie vote, whether one favors Nash or Lebron, suggests that General Managers and coaches are far more competent than our nation’s sportswriters. If David Stern has any power over the situation, it would be wise to add one more rule change to his portfolio – immediately. But the problem is bigger than Steve Nash, MVPs, and award bodies. It is about a sequence of logic that is stifling all honest debate on race and white privilege in sports columns everywhere. And it is called:
Anything-But-Race (ABR): McCallum states: 1) “Voters have their prejudices: We’re prejudiced toward passers…”; 2) toward “team-oriented set-up guys”; 3) “we’re prejudiced against guys who foment discontent on their own teams”; and 4) “we’re prejudiced toward guys on winning teams.”; 5) “I think voters looked at LeBron over the last two years and saw an incomplete player leading an incomplete team.”… 6) “Maybe we voters are "age-ists," but we are not racists”
Before we begin, let’s bury the word “racist” right now because it tends to always serve as a “discussion ender”. The word has come to conjure up a meaning of “evil men who burn crosses at Klan rallies” instead of the more common biases that even many good and well-intentioned people have (which Jack McCallum, 100+ other voters, or myself are certainly not immuned). I should also state up-front that I actually agree with many of McCallum’s points about the other biases. However, I would NEVER be so presumptuous to dismiss his cited factors as cavalierly as he dismisses race. Interestingly enough, biases #1 – #4 listed FAVOR Lebron James status, so McCallum, naturally kept reaching for new biases, ANY biases… “anything-but-race” biases.
Sportswriter Race Rules: McCallum’s analysis, which includes a grand total of SIX biases, is a common sportswriter staple for race discussions in the mainstream sports media. The common flaw is the “either-or” thinking that states “It’s not race, it’s (fill in the blank)”. If any of this is confusing, then just try and visualize Mitch Albom or Mike Lupica on virtually ANY episode of The Sports Reporters. If you are still not getting it, picture them talking about Barry Bonds. Because the sportswriter race rules dictate that a racial bias and any other bias can’t simultaneously be true. Of course, there can be 27 OTHER co-existing biases – just not race! Generally speaking there will be no stone or bias unturned before arriving at a more warm and fuzzy conclusion. Sportswriter Race Rules and Anything-but-Race Syndrome have severely hampered the prospect of honest and productive dialogue about race, white privilege, and by extension, racial progress. Oh, and by the way we are waaaaaay past Jack McCallum who I do NOT want to characterize as a frequent offender.
Did He Say That?: McCallum stated at the top: “It’s about four months too early for a discussion about the MVP voting and about 40 years too late for a discussion about race.”
Perhaps I read this one wrong so I leave that possibility open, but considering some past quality columns that I have read by Mr. McCallum, this caught me off guard. The second part of this statement I found to be both highly objectionable and revealing. Is Mr. McCallum suggesting that racial bias is no longer a serious issue to be discussed and dealt with in our country? At a time when: there has been a 40% rise in # of hate groups since 2000; the Jena 6 may have all been facing 20 year sentences without intervention from activists; 14 year old Shaquanda Cotton received 7 years for pushing a hall monitor; 17 year old Genarlow Wilson received 10 years for consensual sex with a 15 year old; last month this umpteenth report came out about the severe racial disparity in arrests, convictions, and incarcerations of non-violent offenders. Did I mention our public schools?
The Big Picture: And what exactly do MVP votes and the media’s coverage of Nash’s athleticism, politics, and community service have to do with all that. Well, just about everything. If “Anything-But-Race” syndrome dictates that we are unable to diagnose fairly straight-forward collective biases in sports, then how exactly are we as a nation going to properly assess and diagnose major racial institutional disparities when the stakes are far greater than distributing MVP trophies? Could there be a common connection between our collective unwillingness to, say, properly identify racial bias in MVP voting disparities and our mass unwillingness to identify crack vs. cocaine disparities? The first might be relatively meaningless, but the second is not. And for those commenters who keep wondering why I “waste so much time talking about white privilege and Steve Nash”, it is PRECISELY because if I ever talk about white privilege and cocaine laws, I can’t get as much as three people to visit this blog. Like the entire history of sports as a reflection of our society, Steve Nash is merely a symbolic laboratory to tell us more about ourselves. Perhaps we should all use him to look in the mirror.
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Added October 21: Sometimes you look over an article a day later and want to add what may have been missed. Here goes: McCallum has since expressed to me that the "40 years too late" comment was poorly communicated on his part and not what he meant at all. More accurately, he agrees that race relations are still 40 years behind the times. This makes far more sense as the updated clarification is much more consistent with McCallum’s larger body of work. And, even if it wasn’t, we will naturally extend Mr. McCallum the benefit of the doubt because he is white !
. …..About NBA sportswriter voter incompetency: If the thrust of McCallum’s argument is that a good portion of voters are not biased because of race, but are biased because of a whole other host of reasons, well that statement doesn’t exactly comfort the soul as far as the competency of voters. Shouldn’t the most deserving player win the award free of ANY bias? Should I be comforted that Lebron may have lost an award because he may have been too young? In explaining voter biases, EVEN IF MCCALLUM WERE TO BE 100% CORRECT that race bias was no factor, doesn’t he still spell out a pretty good case to remove the vote from the writers anyway?
…I don’t know if it was articulated well enough, but I do appreciate McCallum’s willingness to respond and extend him credit for engaging in the discussion at all. And while I clearly found his response to be a flawed one, I make it a habit to not judge journalists and reporters on their worst days or worst articles or poorly-communicated sentences. Since athletes get unfairly judged in this manner by journalists all the time, as a media critic, COSELLOUT must have a fairer standard. Judging from McCallum’s larger body of quality work, the profession of sports journalism is certainly better off with him in it. There are enough people already out there whose worst days are Monday thru Friday every week for COSELLOUT to focus on. — Charles "MODI" Modiano





Note: The following addendum was just added to this article:
Added October 21: Sometimes you look over an article a day later and want to add what may have been missed. Here goes: McCallum has since expressed to me that the “40 years too late” comment was poorly communicated on his part and not what he meant at all. More accurately, he agrees that race relations are still 40 years behind the times. This makes far more sense as the updated clarification is much more consistent with McCallum’s larger body of work. And, even if it wasn’t, we will naturally extend Mr. McCallum the benefit of the doubt because he is white !
.
…..About NBA sportswriter voter incompetency: If the thrust of McCallum’s argument is that a good portion of voters are not biased because of race, but are biased because of a whole other host of reasons, well that statement doesn’t exactly comfort the soul as far as the competency of voters. Shouldn’t the most deserving player win the award free of ANY bias? Should I be comforted that Lebron may have lost an award because he may have been too young? In explaining voter biases, EVEN IF MCCALLUM WERE TO BE 100% CORRECT that race bias was no factor, doesn’t he still spell out a pretty good case to remove the vote from the writers anyway?
…I don’t know if it was articulated well enough, but I do appreciate McCallum’s willingness to respond and extend him credit for engaging in the discussion at all. And while I clearly found his response to be a flawed one, I make it a habit to not judge journalists and reporters on their worst days or worst articles or poorly-communicated sentences. Since athletes get unfairly judged in this manner by journalists all the time, as a media critic, COSELLOUT must have a fairer standard. Judging from McCallum’s larger body of quality work, the profession of sports journalism is certainly better off with him in it. There are enough people already out there whose worst days are Monday thru Friday every week for COSELLOUT to focus on. — Charles “MODI” Modiano
MODI,
. So many COSELLOUTS, so little time. Can’t wait to see who/what you’ve lined up next.
This last entry seems to close the chapter, allowing others to understand the lenses required to view these “insightful” articles posted by MSM. Yet, many readers do notmake the distinction between INCITEFUL and “insightful”. Great point of closure. Anything else would be revisionist or too late on the bandwagon
Been busy doing this and that MODI. I happened across the McCallum article and it simply made the point once again of one of the wisest things anyone has ever said to me. A friend of mine once told me that the particular genius of white America is that they assume that they are masters of the universe. Therefore, they get to define reality. In his piece of tripe response to your post, McCallum-and make no mistake, I don’t hold the him in anywhere near the regard you do as I’ve found him to be part and parcel of the same sensationalist, moralistic, white supremacist lynch mob that defines white American Sports media-uses as the basis of his argument that notion that racie played no part in Nash’s MVP awards and his proof was……BECAUSE HE SAID SO!
F him and his piece of Shit rag.
Steady:
The funny shit is that I don’t have any hair. Been shaved for more than a decade. ROTFLMBAO.
Temple3,
I guess that’s why some of us come to these blogs–for the comic relief and reading some of the idiocy that comes from people’s minds. Knowing you have no hair makes it funniest.
“Only that when judging from the collective landslide vote that many WERE effected by bias.”
So, wait…are you talking about the 1st MVP or the 2nd? Because the first one was no landslide.
Tenmple3…
Yes, I wrote that, and yes, you completely missed the point. But funny how you try and use the same argument that got blasted here. “Ridiculous” is dismissive, remember?
I will not bother explaining those two quotes to you because you failed to make an argument as to their faultiness. (That, and the comment has caused me to judge you as cognitively simple, making any further explanation of such nuanced statements pointless.)
I suggest you all…ALLLLLLLLL…look at the website I left before, http://www.changingminds.org, and familiarize yourself with the theories and argument topics contained therein. If you are unwilling to examine yourselves for fault, then you cannot possibly do so with others.
All of you have allowed your own biases to direct both your comments to Charles’ article and reactions to my rebuttal. In doing so, you have each missed a major part of the larger picture that I have attempted to paint for you.
I’m well aware of my biases and how they work. It is a shame that none of you can say the same.
So long, and forgive me for trying to open your minds.
That site looks awful. It looks like a hodge-podge of Marketing 101 definitions___ “Arousal: When I am aroused I am full engaged and hence more likely to pay attention.”
To borrow from Rakim: “Is this the best that you can make, cuz if not, if you got more, then I’ll wait…but don’t make we wait too long cuz I’ma move on the dance floor when they put somethin’ smooth on.”
Since you’re not a ducker and dodger – and have some appetite for the conversation, I just might tackle some of these issues.
You can start us off by explaining your comment about Mexicans in the NAACP. That sounds like a wonderful place to start. Then I’ll come back to your weaknesses in argumentation posted above. Really, I will.
Then we get into all those goodies about how open your mind is – and how closed my mind is – this oughtta be guuud.
“Turn up the bass, it’s better when it’s loud…’cause I like to Move the Crowd!!”
I’m this first guy to be cynical about race relations in America. And I have no doubt that few sportswriters (of any color) are colorblind.
That said, this is total BS. Yeah, keep pounding the square peg into a round hole, and you’ll get more media attention. Gotta do it somehow, I suppose.
Just a couple points: 1) O’Neal MVP in 2005? Please. Fat, terrible foul shooting and getting the benefit of every call in the lane, Shaq was not an MVP in 2005. A strong case for two or three could have been made for him in his most dominant years, but not in 2005.
2) LeBron: 4 things occur to me. a) you gotta pay your dues. Sure, there are exceptions, but LeBron is too young to win quite yet. He’ll get his share in the future. b) holes in his game. Yeah, if we award MVP for going to the hole, LeBron wins. If we award it for mid-range or 3 pt shooting, or defense of any sort, he isn’t even in the consideration. c) Or how about making your teammates better? LeBron isn’t all that great that way: the stats say his teammates are worse when he’s in the game, his assists notwithstanding. In contrast, Nash is the best in the game in that regard. d) Winning. For better or worse, 50 wins doesn’t necessarily bag you an MVP, especially in the Leastern conference. You can diss his team, but that’s when you focus on offensive stats. But given that his team was and is one of the better defensive teams in the league, that puts his teammates in a whole different light, especially since LeBron himself is consistently a clueless traffic pylon on defense.
So how about we drop the race baiting? Nash is clearly one of the best players in the NBA. Generally a combination of that plus a good team gives you an MVP.
Dave, how exactly does Dirk make his teammates better? Lebron is clearly the engine that runs that Cavs team. And talking about defense in a conversation about Steve Nash is one of the worst things you could ever do. Nash has been getting torched since he played at Dallas.
Doesn’t anyone find it odd that Nash’s rise to an NBA level of play only happened after he began playing Amare and Marion? He never showed that potential in Dallas, and in fact appeared to be on the decline his last year in Dallas. Yet, he came to the Suns and in his first year played with Amare, Marion, Q-Rich and Joe Johnson, and everybody gave him credit for being great? Really? Three of those four players are all-stars, all of them averaged over 15 points a game before they even met Steve Nash.
Barbosa and Diaw have played better with Nash, but has anybody noticed that Barbosa typically doesn’t play at the same time as Nash? Or that Diaw wasplaying out of position at the point guard in Atlanta? Or that Diaw’s amazing year coincided with his contract year, and is an aberration when you look at his total career stats?
How can people ignore this?
Nash’s parents have an interesting story:
http://www.canoe.ca/2000GamesNash/nash_00sep27-sun.html
Can you imagine if all beneficiaries of settler-colonial white supremacist regimes had the same ethical code – and just packed their shit and said, “Nope, I don’t want to live in a nation where an entire CLASS of people are treated like second-class citizens.”
I can imagine the overcrowding in Canada and Europe after the mass exodus of Americans, Afrikaaners, Australians and Rhodesians. The airports would have been packed – and then no one would be tired of hearing about “race.”
But…folks decided to stay and keep all the shit their ancestors snatched up – like land, access to credit in non-competitive markets, jobs in segregated unions, homes in red-lined suburbs and all that other good stuff. Not the Nash’s. They saw clearly that no matter how hard they worked in South Africa – it would have all been a sham because whites controlled 87% of the land and a greater percentage of the wealth. Nope – they packed up the bambino and headed to Canada.
And you sorry bastards with your “racial fatigue” and your rose-colored Americana glasses think folks are here to attack Nash, but you sit on your fat asses in passive receipt of the most immoral of gifts. Hail to the chief. I am ROTFLMBAO. Don’t change, don’t worry. Tick, tock. You’re as anachronistic as a Timex.
Jey
“If you are unwilling to examine yourselves for fault, then you cannot possibly do so with others.”
Wait, so this dude is pissed at us because we don’t ascribe to his “church”. And insist on intellectualizing our perceived perception of what we think racism is, from his point of view?
As an indiot and an obvious appologist for white supremacy, you have and continue to prove the original premis behind this article. You also validate what has always ben said about the blinders of Europeanization and whitification of all discorse surrounding class, ethnicity, culture and skin color.
Linking to a site of a bunch bullshitting intellectuals who feel their ‘superior’ postulations should superceed any and all emotional and physical experiences of non Eurocentric peoples you don’t know shit about, does prove the notion that racism as a belief and has a tie in to white supremacy is alive and well and living most promenently in America Inc.
You are an arrogant bastard Jey. You feel superior to us and as such you are here to lecture to, guide and correct the ‘children’ from hurting themselves.
Pay attention to what others are saying, get a clue that if so many people point out a prevailing theme surrounding a particular phenomina, it may very well mean that the presence of that theme is real.
if it’s not real to you, it’s real to me and others who see what i see.
One more thing, in order to change how I think, you must first hear what I am saying, sympathize if you can’t emphasize and step outside of your ‘whiteness’…wait, that’s the point of the article isn’t it?
Intellectualization with out any emotional content, put the brain as the centre of the universe, that is egotism.
Kiljoy,
I think you mean Babe Ruth??
Funny MVP voting didn’t begin in MLB until 30′s.
I believe the Babe was traded/sold in 1919. BTW The Red Sox improved from a below .500 team to a slightly better below .500 team. I also think Babe pitched as well as played the field for the Sox.
Close, but no cigar. The fact that you have to go here kind of makes my point, doesn’t it?
First of all, thank you Modi, for starting this discussion, I disagree with those who think race and issues of race should not be talked about. A lot of interesting and well thought out points have been raised.
Now having said that, here’s my two cents. America obviously isn’t a colorblind society so to say that race played absolutely NO role in MVP voting, is extremely naive. However I am not willing to concede that race is the reason (the main reason, or a deciding factor) in Nash winning two MVP’s. To me a 57 – 16 victory over LeBron signifies that enough sportswriters found concrete reason to vote for Nash rather than bias. Personally I’d be more suspicious of bias playing a factor in a closer vote. (i.e. these candidates are fairly even so I’ll give it the white guy.) So while in your opinion (supported by various statistics) LeBron was the clear choice, I am sure those who voted for Nash have concrete statistical support for their own opinions. (As I didn’t vote or study the candidates that closely I can’t venture what they were)
Secondly, I like your ABR theory, I’ve had similar thoughts but had been unable to express them as clearly. I agree that this mentality exists. However, (and I realize I’m about to sound like a ABR-er) I think other factors most likely played a much much larger role than race in explaining why Nash won his MVPs to such a degree that i doesn’t even make sense to play the race card. I think that’s what McCallum was trying to explain (and did successfully for me) in his article. So while the biases he lists aren’t mutually exclusive to race, they, in my opinion, carry far more weight with the voters than race would. For instance, I think (and this in conjecture), the fact that Nash is a small guy (relatively) dominating a large man’s game played a much larger role is swaying some votes in his direction than race.
Are these biases bad? Do these biases make sportswriters unqualified to vote for the MVP? I don’t think so. Obviously it would be nice not to have biases affect the voting but Coaches and GM’s have their own biases, so having them vote wouldn’t solve the problem. The only method free from bias would be a purely statistical method, but as the MVP isn’t even specifically defined, and statistics such as assists can be counted differently, and other important aspects (alterting shots) aren’t measured and some (leadership, intimidation) can’t be measured, a statistical MVP isn’t likely to happen.
Jey – when referencing the landslide, I am obviously taking about the 2nd MVP vore. Like I said in the original article. Nash over Shaq was benefit of doubt #1, Nash over Lebron was extreme B-O-D #2. With the landslide vote = The End of All Charity.
Dave _ Why does Lebron “have to pay his dues”? Where in the MVP voting criteria does it have this requirement? 30 points, 7 board, 6 assists and 50 wins playing with a bunch of scrubs sounds like dues paying to me. Also, “clueless traffic pylon” on defense, but Lebron’s defense is SUPERIOR to Nash’s! Another check for Lebron. You also state: “the stats say his teammates are worse when he’s in the game”… would you like to provide me with “point-differential” of when Lebron is in the game vs. when sitting to support such a statement?
– Temple – great link on Nash’s parents! DAMN! I really wish I read it before I wrote the article. His parents background in South Africa obviously provide a rich dimension into the type of person that Steve Nash is. I merely mentioned his parents ATHLETIC influence, but not his parents MORAL influence… no small point. Actually it is a HUGE point. A CENTRAL POINT towards what resisting white privilege is about! Maybe I’ll weave it into an addendum. DAMN! Thanks again…
Jones, you state: “LeBron was the clear choice, I am sure those who voted for Nash have concrete statistical support for their own opinions.”
No, there is no “concrete statistical support”… and certainly nothing that remotely separates that margin for Nash. The beauty of sports over every other discussion is that we have a statistical basis to work from. Subjectivity can only travel so far. Your rational for the margin is what psychologist like to call the “just world hypothesis”. We are predisposed to thinking the world is just. So why must the drastic margin be just? Because it is. Because THAT many people CAN’T BE WRONG! It is not comfortable to conceive that so many good people be biased in their judgements.
Now, allow me to belabor the point of the “just-world-hypothesis” because — while MVP voting is meaningless– every evil in history was allowed to persist was because of the human pull of the “just-world-hypothesis”. Roman Gladiators? Slavery? Women’s suffrage? All these thing seem so simple now, but if most people were born into these environments, they would (and did!) naturally accept these things as just. Why? BECAUSE IT WAS! And because there was so many people that “could not be wrong”…. Now, pleeeeeeeeeeeeease don’t mistake what I am writing here to a “comparison” with Nash. I take that you will understand that I’m merely discussing a natural mindset and phenomena that allows us to accept the “unjust” as just — no matter how significant or insignificant the matter is.
– Also, NO BIASES are a good thing. But since you mention the “little guy bias”, let’s go there. I agree that there is a “little guy bias”, but this bias is intertwined with race in a way that can’t be separated. Through a lifetime of watching basketball and listening to fans and journalists, I have seen “small white guys” get far more little man credit than “small black guys”. A guy like Iverson is a couple inches shorter than Nash, but just doesn’t resonate with a lot of people as the little-guy-feel-good-story-of-overcoming-the giants. No, on some vicarious level, Nash reminds voters of THEMSELVES where Iverson does not — besides being SMALLER! That is why we here all this bullshit about Nash being “unathletic”. It’s like many white people just HAVE to relate more to him that will make him more of a “regular guy”. Race is a complex subject and doesn’t neatly separate itself from other competing biases.
– I have already shown the evidence of Lebron-Nash as co-MVPs by GMs and coaches (by Sporting News) that seem to demonstrate a greater grasp on reality. For me this piece of evidence is more valuable than McCallum’s, yours, or anyone else’s conjecture that says otherwise.
here’s an idea. have the media vote for mvp as they do today with the same system. but also, in a separate vote, have every current nba player do the same thing.
the player that gets the most combined votes (equally weighted) wins mvp.
this new mvp voting system would include the players in voting for their peers, which would seem to make sense, and still give the media — who cover the game closely and (ideally) objectively — their chance to get things right, without being the sole judge of who wins mvp.
since the league is overwhelmingly african-american (no revelation there), and the media is overwhlemingly caucasion, the voting would reveal if race is influencing voting in a subconscious way … or it could demonstrate (when both the media and the players vote for the same person) that the mvp went to the right guy, no matter what the race of the voter.
then again, yao ming might get royally screwed… (joke)
Charles, I have returned to inform you (though you probably have already seen) that some jackass is making you look very bad on my blog. If you look at the replies, then you will see how it is irresponsible to bring race into this particular discussion. It gives stupid people bad ideas.
As far as the 2nd MVP vote, I can give you a million arguments as to why it happened that do not involve race, though I’m sure that it wouldn’t change anyone’s mind.
“Wait, so this dude is pissed at us because we don’t ascribe to his “churchâ€. ”
No, I am not pissed off. I am giving valuable advice. I have explained on my own blog why I don’t like discussing race issues, and it has to do with the futility of trying to change a person’s mind when they don’t even realize what they are doing. All I am trying to do is get people to look at it from a perspective other than the two that invariably dominate these discussions. I have pointed out people’s misconceptions on how the human mind works, and I have given information that corrects the misconceptions. Whether ot not you choose to follow through with the thinking is entirely up to you.
“As an indiot and an obvious appologist for white supremacy”
You either did not read or you missed the point of my piece on the Confederate Flag. If you read it slowly enough to take in the words, you will see that I rail against white supremecists in it.
“You are an arrogant bastard Jey.”
I may be arrogant, but my parents were married before I was born. It was close, though.
I linked to a site that says, “Here’s how people think, here’s how salesman get you to buy things, here are the fundamental mistakes people make when debating.” There is no bullshit involved. It is a useful tool when constructing persuasive arguments. I can understand if you’re intimidated by intelligence, but that’s no reason to get upset at me. I’m just relaying information that existed long before I was born.
“it may very well mean that the presence of that theme is real.”
Or it may mean that people are falling prey to the “availability heurstic,” which leads people to make decisions based on the data that is most commonly presented to them. It is why people were so afraid after 9-11. Everyone thought there were terror cells all over the place because that’s all the news talked about for weeks. It was false. Consider that hundreds of years ago “most people believed that the earth was flat and was the center of the universe.” It’s now called “Wikiality.”
“One more thing, in order to change how I think, you must first hear what I am saying, sympathize if you can’t emphasize and step outside of your ‘whiteness’”
You assume that, because I presented an argument against the content of the article, I did not hear anyone’s argument. You also assume that I’ve never heard any arguments for it. Most disturbingly, that statement implies that “white” is by definition unsympathetic. And I believe you meant to say “empathize.”
1. If you did not read the first article I linked, then you cannot assume the color of my skin.
2. You cannot assume my educational background, despite the clear and methodical way I type.
3. You cannot assume that I am unsympathetic and that I am somehow privileged because you do not know under what circumstances I was raised.
4. You cannot assume that others should think like you simply because you say so.
5. You need to take the advice that you quoted.
RE: Just World Hypothesis
I don’t know if this is what is happening, but it seems like it — Why is it better to assume an unjust world in this case? Why does it automatically become race, simply based on the fact that it is very difficult to quantify Nash’s impact on a team?
For example, I love Nash as a player because, on the court, he reminds me of a lot of old school point guards, color notwithstanding. He’s a witty interview, a crappy dresser, a great leader on the floor, and none of that has to do with the color of his skin. I can point to several black athletes that I enjoy watching for similar reasons (Allen Iverson is one of my favorites…no, seriously).
Bottom line — when it comes to complex explanations, why do we feel the need to simplify it using race? It’s just as bad to assume that racial biases did play a major role in voting as it is to ignore that it was a possibility. But like I said in my blog, once you acknowledge the possibility (which is very easy), you then have to address the probability (which is unprovable in this case). Just seems counterproductive to the whole idea of discussing it.
LOL! You know Jey, even though that first post was a complete (and very well done!) mockery of me, I have to tell you that on some level, I found it a quite enjoyable read! I’ll come by your site sometime later today and do my best to respond for whatever that might or might not be worth.
Listen Jey, I’m a big boy. If I write an article exposing racial bias and white privilege I know full well that I am going to take some shit for it no matter how much evidence is presented. When you live in a country where white denial is rampant as ours, that simply comes with the territory. And it ain’t going to change anytime soon. That is PRECISELY the reason that so many reporters who DO see bias on a dialy basis won’t write about it. They will tip-toe around it, maybe even cite a list of double standards, but that is usually it.
As a rule my condition for responding to critics is predicated on something about their response that I perceive that the other person, like me, is sincerely and genuinely, wanting to find TRUTH beyond just being a lawyer in a court room. When I come on your blog, those are the commenters that I will respond to.
Jey, you state a fair question: “Why is it better to assume an unjust world in this case? Why does it automatically become race, simply based on the fact that it is very difficult to quantify Nash’s impact on a team?”
Jey I am assuming NOTHING. The 57 to 16 vote was UNJUST. Period. End of story. I did not manufacture that vote. Bill Walton’s characterization of Nash’s athleticism– which mind you I have heard countless other similar characterizationa from fans– was UNJUST.
Nash receiving accolades for his community service while Mutombo getting no love for a 30 million dollar hospital was UNJUST. Extra media attention probably meant more dollars for that hospital. Marbury, who has done 10 times the community service as Nash getting NO PRESS this summer (unless you are counting consensual sex and free spirited interviews) was UNJUST. More than unjust. It was a TRAVESTY. I know full well that none of the article’s critics will ever get outraged enough to remedy any of these things.
So there should be no debate here on WHETHER there is a problem. And I will readily concede that MULTIPLE biases can be at work, to exclude race given all these preferential levels of treatment is absurd. I have a question for you, McCallum, and anyone else who requires more evidence to make a race-based diagnosis than sending someone to the electric chair:
Did you hold up McCallum’s 6 OTHER biases up to the same level of scrutiny that you did “race”? Are you going to put McCallum through the wringer on his proposed “ageist” bias as you do me with race? Or will you readily accept WITHOUT ANY RESISTANCE any other possible bias that comes down the pike…
One last point, and once again I love a good discussion, but you seem to be arguing that because the GM and coaches had Nash and LeBron as co-MVP that means they are unbiased, huh? So are you saying because there conclusions agree with yours or are more similiar to yours they are unbiased. That makes no sense, coaches and GM’s would be subject to the same biases as sportswriters, although perhaps you could argue that they are a more diverse group, but even then it doesn’t elimate bias. Coaches may tend to vote for players who remind them of themselves, or that played for them, or who they’ve heard are coachable, etc. It seems to me you are arguing for a pure statistical basis for the MVP, which would be the only way to elimate ALL bias.
Jones, I am not arguing a PURE statistical basis. If that were the case, then the tropy goes to Kobe in a unanimous decision. I have factored in hard statistics, winning, supporting cast, and intangibles. But stats cannot be completely IGNORED! 30-7-6 is simply ridiculous. 50 wins with Drew Gooden (and NOT Shawn Marion) as your 2nd best player is simply ridiculous. A 57-16 vote is simply ridiculous.
You can NEVER eliminate ALL bias, like Michael Jordan, you can only hope to contain it. Yes, GM’s and coaches are certainly not immuned to bias (racial or otherwise), but they are also the ones planning on how to stop an opposing player. That means a lot.
And no, the GM’s conclusions do not agree with mine. My personal conclusion is that Lebron should have WON the second award outright, not have it in a tie. But what even NASH SUPPORTERS must concede is that by no objective measure should Nash have won by 57-16. That vote — EVEN IF WE DISAGREE ON WHY THAT IS– is a vote of collective incompetence. In conclusion-again- reasonable people could possibly disagree on the choice — but not the final vote. So, GMs and coaches seem to be more in line with reality. The fact that my own personal opinion is also grounded in reality is purely incidental.
No, I am not pissed off. I am giving valuable advice. I have explained on my own blog why I don’t like discussing race issues, and it has to do with the futility of trying to change a person’s mind when they don’t even realize what they are doing.
If you don’t like discussing race issues, why are you on here doing so?
All I am trying to do is get people to look at it from a perspective other than the two that invariably dominate these discussions.
What other two points are there? There is or is not!
I have pointed out people’s misconceptions on how the human mind works, and I have given information that corrects the misconceptions. Whether ot not you choose to follow through with the thinking is entirely up to you.
The human mind is influenced by it’s environment, it does not arrive at a position from a void and since emotion is greater than environment, your emotional context and influence affects you subconsciously more than any conscious intellectualization.
You either did not read or you missed the point of my piece on the Confederate Flag. If you read it slowly enough to take in the words, you will see that I rail against white supremecists in it.
There is conscious and unconscious support for a white supremacist system, I will give you some information to read slowly so you’ll understand that the KKK are racist, but don’t practice a SYSTEM of white Supremacy.
I linked to a site that says, “Here’s how people think, here’s how salesman get you to buy things, here are the fundamental mistakes people make when debating.†There is no bullshit involved. It is a useful tool when constructing persuasive arguments. I can understand if you’re intimidated by intelligence, but that’s no reason to get upset at me. I’m just relaying information that existed long before I was born.
How intelligent can your conversation be, when you dismiss the premes and the views off the bat? Yeah I am so intimidated by your intelligent argument, because of your parroting arguments not your own but appears intelligent to you
Or it may mean that people are falling prey to the “availability heurstic,†which leads people to make decisions based on the data that is most commonly presented to them. It is why people were so afraid after 9-11. Everyone thought there were terror cells all over the place because that’s all the news talked about for weeks. It was false. Consider that hundreds of years ago “most people believed that the earth was flat and was the center of the universe.†It’s now called “Wikiality.â€
Obfuscation and misdirection will not change the fact that on this topic your intellectualization does not carry weight.
You assume that, because I presented an argument against the content of the article, I did not hear anyone’s argument. You also assume that I’ve never heard any arguments for it. Most disturbingly, that statement implies that “white†is by definition unsympathetic. And I believe you meant to say “empathize.â€
Thank you for correcting my English, fine sire, yet as you deduced I know you only hear what you want to hear. The statement about “white†being unsympathetic…. wait for the information on White Supremacy, though I have no hope or care if you take your blinders off.
1. If you did not read the first article I linked, then you cannot assume the color of my skin.
Where did I mention or refer your skin color.
2. You cannot assume my educational background, despite the clear and methodical way I type.
Where did I assume your educational background?
3. You cannot assume that I am unsympathetic and that I am somehow privileged because you do not know under what circumstances I was raised.
Where did I assume you were privileged. I care not how you were raised, but you’re right I assume you are unsympathetic.
4. You cannot assume that others should think like you simply because you say so.
But…that’s exactly what you are trying to get MODI and the rest of us to do!
5. You need to take the advice that you quoted.
In the matter of ethnicity and the conflict around skin tone and white supremacy, I cannot advise me…you can seek same from me.
I meant you cannot adivse me.
Sankofa:
It would help me a great deal if you put the speaker’s positions in quotes or italics or something. Thanks.