"Knicks win [last night's blowout of Cleveland] in most convincing, energetic fashion and mainstream sports media focus is on “fans” holding “Fire Isiah” signs. I agree with Jay Bee that the boobirds and “Fire Isiah” crowd are primarily the creation of the mainstream media tabloid hacks who despise both Zeke and Dolan for restricting their access to the team. In the interview following last night’s game, D. Lee said that he viewed the win against Cleveland as a commited team effort, reflecting high intensity and pure determination to prevail. Lee encouraged the fans to “stay positive” — something many of us who contribute to this blog have been saying for some time." – Knick Fan "Prince" on KnickDefenders Website
The above quote represents another Knick fan’s point of view that won’t be found in your local or national newspaper. It simply doesn’t fit the mass hysteria that has become the phenomena presently known as "Fire Isiah". And make no mistake, it is nothing short of mass hysteria. This has gone far beyond chanting fans at Knick games. Don’t believe me? New York tabloid journalists and pundits on Around the Horn have asked for David Stern to intervene on the Knicks coaching situation. ESPN, along with every other media outlet, reported yesterday’s mini-protest outside of Madison Square Garden demanding Isiah’s removal. There was a giant "Pink Slip" and everything. Not enough for you? Apparently, there is also a bigger civl rights issue at stake here as activist Norman Siegel says: "The Knicks are trampling on what New York is all about. We’re outspoken, and we’re zany at times, but principles and values of free speech should be adopted." Is Siegal referring to language in "The Patriot Act"? Nope. He is referring to a fan having his "Fire Isiah" sign removed at a game. I must have missed that constitutional clause that allowed for signs in private venues. Perhaps, if I don’t like my food at a restaurant tonite I can hold up a sign that says: "The Chef Sucks" and call Siegal if they violate my rights by taking it away. But I digress.
Mass protest? Commisioner Intervention? First ammendment rights? Wow, if our media covered our national policy with the same vigor, George Bush would have been impeached many years ago! So how did we get here? Surely there are many fans who want Isiah fired for legitimate reasons. I, myself, just wrote yesterday how much I have been truly dissappointed with Isiah’s coaching performance (not GM) . But there is certainly a difference between wanting your coach fired, and pretending that we’re marching back in Selma, Alabama. Despite pre-season expectations as conference-contenders, The Heat and The Bulls have had a similar start to the Knicks this year, but will get plenty of time to work the kinks out. So, is the Knicks reaction simply and purely the "will of the people"? Not quite. Here is an article from today’s New York Daily News:
"A slew of fed-up Knicks fans marched into Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night brandishing "FIRE ISIAH!" signs from the Daily News. Although the Knicks managed to beat the Cleveland Cavaliers 108-90, the victory clearly didn’t change many minds about wanting coach Isiah Thomas to go. …’You guys at The [Daily] News motivated us to come here and let the owners know what we think,’ said hotel concierge David Sergi, 22, of Holbrook, L.I. …The News printed the [Fire Isiah] poster as a holiday gift to frustrated Knicks fans after fellow devotee Jason Silverstein was tossed from Monday night’s loss to the Pacers when he held up his own makeshift sign."
The "Fire Isiah" posters came with The New York Daily News instructions to bring them to the next Knicks blowout loss. This wasn’t the first time that The Daily News has been offering "motivation". Along with their partners-in-crime at "The New York Post" they have been the "fire Isiah" ring leaders for the last four years. The back page headlines are atrocious, they regularly speak for and INSTRUCT the fans, and they rarely if ever offer a dissenting point of view in any of their articles. (For example, perhaps some fans might not take to the streets if the media ever informed them that when compared to other teams in NBA history the December 2003 roster that Thomas inherited is AT MINIMUM a 5-year turnaround project.). And even worse, as the opening quote alluded to, there have been continual claims that the tabloids are also out for revenge because they are unhappy with The Knicks and James Dolan’s media policy. Surely many fans in Chicago have expressed that they want Scott Skiles dismissed, but their local newspapers might be less apt to have a back page [NY Post] that says: "This Turkey’s Gotta Go" to celebrate goodwill, peace, and harmony over the Thanksgiving holdays.
And before we get all nostalgic about the Knicks of yesteryear let’s remember that this is the same local media that ran true warrior Patrick Ewing out of town and wrote the headline "Good Riddance" [NY Post] on the day that he was traded. This is the same media that had fans believing that Ewing was more of a detriment than an asset to the Knicks in the late ’90s. And this is the same media that convinced fans that two years ago AROD was having a terrible year despite batting .290 with 35 Hrs and 121 RBIs. So, is the media responsible for a Knick fan wanting Isiah to be fired. Of course not. Isiah will have to take some responsibility for helping the Knicks lose those games. However, only the media can take responsibility for helping Knick fans lose their minds.
BARF- How am I wrong? Marbury has been INCREDIBLY miusued by Isiah. I can’t harp on how better the Knicks play when Marbury doesn’t have Crawford around. And let’s get real about who the team belonged to. This is Marbury’s team, but Isiah is the one who deemed Curry as the go to guy. It was a stupid attempt, because Curry doesn’t do enough on both ends to justify that type of tag. Marbury has sacrified his game, which he wouldn’t do for Larry Brown, while watching INFERIOR players try to be something they’re not. That isn’t being a team player? That’s not trying to show leadership? Give me a break, man. Enough with the tired ass cliches and let’s talk basketball! What coach removes the scoring responsibilities from his best player? Name me one! Isiah is coaching like the GM who has to prove his trades were the right ones- namely Curry and Crawford. The problem here is Crawford and Curry are USELESS if they aren’t scoring. They are both HORRENDOUS defenders. Their offense does NOT make up for their POROUS defense on the other end. The solution here is to lose Jamal, Curry and Miss-Q-Rich (another BRILLIANT shooting exhibition today from him, BTW). Let’s start looking for player solutions to the problem at hand. Why not let Marbury shoot 20-25 times a game, and put Lee, Balkman and others into the game who do NOT require the ball to make a difference? Remove the offensive responsibilities Crawford has. Make Marbury more of a feature scorer. Forget the point guard dilemna, because the point guard on our team is the team’s best scorer. Marbury, unlike Crawford, creates opportunities for others with his penetration skills. Crawford simply doesn’t get it done for anyone other than himself. He is a bit part to a successful team. Marbury and the team needs someone better than Crawford at shooting guard.
I have no doubts that Isiah Thomas had this in mind before the season started. When Marbury said he would be more offensive this year, it meant less shots for Curry and Crawford and I’m sure Thomas wasn’t liking what he heard. Thomas is simply coaching to preserve his reputation as a GM. The fact of the matter is Thomas was ready with a hammer for Marbury and he took advantage of it after the Heat loss when he tried to bench Marbury. If Marbury tries to do things himself, Thomas would say Marbury is no team player. Marbury submerges his game, the team suffers, and Marbury is STILL being tagged as a player who can’t help his team.
I’m all for Thomas being removed as the coach. He has turned this team into a disaster with his coaching. The players aren’t stupid. This was close to a .500 team when Marbury had it his way in 2003-2004. The 2004-2005 season was the last year Marbury had full reign of the offense and they ended up at 33-49, but this was a fractured team without Allan Houston on the squad. This was also a team that Marbury despised because of the heartless efforts against the Nets in the playoffs, particularly Kurt Thomas, who as the team’s “enforcer” did nothing to K-Mart RJ after this hard fouls on Tim Thomas and Marbury. Larry Brown arrived and Marbury has never had the free reign to shoot the rock. It’s time we take this back to 2003-2004 and allow Mr. Marbury to be himself and let these guys play around him and not the other way around.
Very sensible points made here Jimmy. I still can’t understand how we regress from the accomplished team we had last year by adding a more potent scorer and rebounder.
yes, good points Jimmy. Marbury has been misutilized, however, i really do like Crawford as a 6th man.
STEADY- I will tell you how. Despite Curry’s good start last year, the Knicks didn’t start playing well until the brawl. Looking back at last year, that coincides with Marbury playing better. We had a nice stretch of soft games on our schedule beginning in late February and early March, but our team was wrecked by injuries. During that stretch Marbury played really well and the Knick went 5-2. This is a better team when Marbury is allowed the freedom to score. Adding Z-BO has taken shots away from Stephon and Curry. Somewhere along the line, someone has to take control of this team from a scoring standpoint. The offense is MISERABLE this season. You take the ball out of Marbury’s hands and this team plain sucks.
MODI- Perhaps you should do an article on how Zeke poor coaching and how the offense needs to be run through Marbury. We need to begin with the Larry Brown season. Log the record of the Knicks when Marbury scores over 20, 25,30, and 35. Take into account games where Marbury didn’t play and check the record minus Stephon. I would NOT include games from last season post March 6th, when the Knicks played without Lee, Crawford and Q-Rich. I think a lot of Knick fans would be shocked at the results. I think there is something with some of the current teammates not liking Marbury, because they don’t want Marbury being the feature player. What other reason would there be?
Frustrating game yesterday. Just frustrating
Modi,
Many sensible fans view Crawford as nothing more than a 6th man. However, I view a different game being played by IT. In the same thought pattern that caused the HOF saboteur to demand a trade for Francis, Crawford is now the featured PG and “emerging leader”. In the end, it should equate to Marbury being DNP/CD/Bereavement.
That plan has backfired again because Marbury is arguably the best player on the team. (MY ARGUMENTS FOLLOW) He can defend his man better than Zach. He can score with the same aplomb. He can rebound his position. He is a PG and the gameplan works through him.
Back in the day, the players would just go out and execute winning plays despite the coach–(Jordan-Pippen to Collins and Jackson; Magic-Kareem to Riley, Westhead; Thomas-Laimbeer to Daily; Stockton-Malone to Sloan; Bird-McHale to KC Jones, Bill Fitch). Now, today’s NBA is different because of the Lone Rogue Refs and the NY scripts set up by Stern. And in NY, IT is the end all of all. It would be hard to get out of the team concept. I wish they could go back to the style from the end of last season and this time with a 20-10 player in their midst.
STEADY- Simplicity, my friend. To play team ball one needs a team first lol. We ain’t going anywhere with these guys. I would trade Crawford to a team looking for scoring punch and look to get back expiring contracts. If I could, I would try Seattle. Give me Wally Z and his expiring deal. Just ask Wally to sit around and hit open shots, nothing more. Knicks could have used Giricek. That would have been a good chance to dump Crawford and put in someone who fills a real need.
Jimmy, I agree with your points about Stephon. Most of them, really. I agree that Stephon is a skilled PG and the best option at the PG for this team. I’d go as far keeping Curry on the bench and benching QRich in favor of Jeffries/Balk.
I think my argument boils down to teaching leadership qualities? How does Isiah teach a man like Stephon to be a better leader in the midst of a spiteful and inciteful NYC media. Not just scoring 20 and 8 but inspiring your teammates to follow your example.
How do you explain Stephon leaving the team? Is there more to the story in your opinion?
Last year, Steph received credit and recognition for stepping his play. The team responded and went on a tear. But between all the summer’s press, the court testimony, the addition of another shot hungry big man and the AWOL event…not to mention a month long absence… I don’t think it should be a surprise that Steph’s influence is being questioned.
I just think there’s more to the story than “Isiah is misusing Stephon”. The second half of last year was proof that Isiah was getting through to Steph. This year he’s been missing and has yet to show who he showed himself to be last year.
Maybe he’s the final experiment for this year. Maybe he’s the final frontier. Add him back to the mix (starting Lee & Jeffries, benching Curry and QRich) and see where that gets us.
But if that doesn’t work out…Steph’s contract is the next one to expire. He’s had his chance to shine in NYC. Curry’s has had his chance. QRich has had his chance.
Yes, Zeke took a chance on every one of these dudes. They got to step it up too.
I can understand why people don’t like JCraw. The playground handle, the double pumping floaters in the lane, the spinning shoulder fakes and wild shots…
but for Giricek?
Nah. Leave the GMing to the pros.
Giri’s just an expiring contract. We don’t more expiring contracts, we need bodies. players who can play both ways.
But then again, so do most of the teams in the league who are struggling.
The GM’s job is far from over. The coach’s job hasn’t yet begun.
Steph’s contract is up next. With Steph having publicly announced that he’s off to Italy when his contract is up, why would you feature him? Why not take his announcement as a chance to feature others?
I don’t find enjoyment in the coach’s decisions and the results of those decisions…but going away from Stephon is understandable when you look back on the last few years and take into account his statements.
Jimmy, good idea about a Stephon article, i may research it. In any case, i have had a totally different Stephon article in my head for sometime, but never got achance to put it to down. Maybe when he finally comes back will be the right time.
Steady, we wish for the same things!!!
BARF, you are right, this is now the final experiment with Marbury coming back with the new lineup. So true.
BARF- I am not huge into cliches to defend or attack players. This notion that Isiah is trying to teach Marbury leadership by sticking in there with inferior players simply doesn’t wash for me. The bottom line is teaching Marbury to be a better leader isn’t making Curry a better rebounder and defender, nor is it making Miss-Q-Rich a better shooter, nor is it making Crawford a better player from the perimeter. That stuff is mostly cliches. I’m sure we wouldn’t be wondering about Marbury’s leaderships skills if he had KG, HeGotGame, and P2 on his squad.
As for the leaving the squad drama, I believe Isiah set Marbury up. Marbury isn’t stupid enough to walk out on his team knowing full well the consequences that would lead up to it. I think Isiah knew he would fall for it (telling him to go home if he didn’t want to come off the bench) and Marbury obliged. The truth will never come out, but that seems to be the underhanded way Isiah operates. He tells Marbury it’s ok to leave, but he really doesn’t give him permission.
The way I see it, Isiah is going down with Crawford and Curry playing huge minutes. He knows this has to be a “team effort” because he doesn’t want these chumps crying because they can’t do anything other than shoot the rock (Curry and Crawford). Let’s make sense of this. Curry and Crawford aren’t big time players. Why is Isiah coaching this “team” game? It’s not because he thinks all these guys are all equal talents. It’s his spin to cover his ass. I imagine Curry is sulking because he isn’t the #1 option these days. Isiah doesn’t want to lose Crawford to the same sulking which Crawford frequently went through with Chicago when he was not the feature player. It’s insanity at this point. I have no problem with Marbury taking less shots, but shouldn’t he be deferring shots to superior players?
BARF- As for Giricek, I just want a shooter from the perimeter and the ability to fill a spot on the roster in the future with his expiring contract. By removing the delinquently awful 40% shooter that Crawford is, there are more shots available for the better shooters who will take higher % shots. And anyone out there plays defense better than Crawford at this point.
Jimmy, I agree about the dire need for a perimeter shooter, but don’t necessarily see an expiring contract as valuable, with the only exception being that isiah has a handshake deal with Lebron for 2010.
I also want to weigh in on this “Go Home” thing between Isiah and Marbury. As an employment readiness trainer, i have heard of this exchange happening many times. Supervisor says “well, if you don’t like it, then you can go home” or something like that. The employee goes home, and the supervisor believed the person “quit” because they had the balls to take up the offer. This is not that uncommon, and this is my best guess about what happened with Isiah and Marbury. And if something like this happened, Marbury wouldn’t be LEGALLY at fault, but still is at fault nonetheless as a player and teammate. he should know better (assuming this scenario is accurate).
MODI- Where I agree that getting under the cap isn’t the saving grace it’s made out to be, there is a silver lining in being under the cap after 09,10,11. We’re talking Wade, Carmelo, Kobe and Lebron all with outs in their contract. No matter what, Wade is NOT resigning with the Heat once the Daddy retires. Melo might resign, but Lebron is as good as gone merely out of NBA pressure to go to a larger market. Fact of the matter is, I would pray for the departure of a few non-impact players for the opportunity to acquire one of these studs. Wade would be perfect in my opinion. I refuse to believe we can’t get one superstar to play in the Big Apple if the chance presented itself. Personally, I think Lebron is a Net if the Brooklyn arena gets built. Think Kobe wouldn’t want to land here at MSG?
DeAndre Jordan comes out in the draft. We bag our big man of the future, at least on the defensive end this draft. In 2 or 3 years, we snag one of the aforementioned superstars. You let Curry, Crawford and others leave via free agency as their contracts expire or they opt out or you trade them for expiring contracts along with draft picks We begin signing free agents that can actually help us. I’m all for the Knicks trading their players for draft picks and expiring contracts.
Look at what the Sixers did. They have a poor record. What do they do? They trade a contract that has 3 years and 16 million left on it to the Jazz for their 1st rd pick and a contract that is finished after this season. That is EXACTLY the type of trades Isiah needs to make. Why can’t we remove guys like Miss-Q-Rich, Jamal Crawford, Jefferies, Rose for guys who have expiring contracts and their 1st rd pick? The Jazz can afford to take the contract length because they are always competitive. They can give up the 1st rounder. We need to get players. The draft and free agency need to be used. The Jazz could use Kyle Korver, but can’t use Jamal Crawford? I refuse to believe someone out there can’t use some of the players we have. The Lakers can’t use Miss-Q-Rich off the pine? I don’t buy it. You might think this is nuts, but I would move Crawford for Kwame Brown and the Lakers 1st rd pick this year and in 2010 NON-PROTECTED, right NOW. Gamble worth the risk, since there is a chance Kobe could opt out, making the Lakers a lottery team in 2010. This is the type of vision required by Isiah, but we won’t see it, because he probably feels he won’t be around by then.
I would also move Curry to a team like Orlando for Arroyo and Pat Garrity and their UNPROTECTED 1st rd picks this year and 2010. You all might think I’m insane, but this year we have guys like Antawn Jamison and Gilbert Arenas who will opt out of their contracts this year. Moving Crawford and Curry for contracts that expire GUARANTEE you a chance at guys like him. Did I forget to mention Okafer is also unrestricted? He might be, but you get the idea. You can’t have it both ways. There is no excuse for staying in this quagmire-like state Isiah is in. I’m all for the blowing up of this team and getting multiple draft picks in trades down the line. Time has come to blow this up.
Jimmy, thanks for tyhe post. I am not nearly as optimistic about getting under the cap as a rebuilding dtrategy (see The Salary Myth http://www.cosellout.com/?p=131). My guess is that most of the guys that you named will be resigned before that date OR will be more likely to get moved in a trade. Once a team realizes that it will definitely lose a great player to free agency, they will trade them than get nothing in return.
However, the biggest exception here might be Lebron because even if he signed for half the money with the Knicks his endoresment would more than make up for it. Besides he really wants to be a billionaire. However, if I’m a GM, I’ve got to get some inside scoops ahead of time to rebuild that way. (I have very little doubt that jerry west KNEW that Shaq would be coming to LA from Orlando back in ’96)
About the Sixers, I have no idea how they got a #1 pick for Korver. Q-Rich’s back makes him untradeable, and I don’t know that Crawford will fetch you one. Curry can get you something if the other team can pair him up with a nice defender, but not nearly anywhere as your proposal.
Now the most plausible name on your list IMHO is Emeka Okafor. His defensive stengths are exactly what the Knicks need and he wouldn’t be needed for offense. I can definitely see a trade with Charlotte here.
MODI- I agree 100% with your salary cap piece. The one BIG problem that theory has is that NYC is a marketing tool for these players. The fame and fortune Madison Square Garden offers cannot be replicated by too many teams. That alone should be good enough to sway a free agent. It worked with Allan Houston years ago. They dumped Charles Smith’s contract for a chance to get greatly under the cap years ago. It managed to get them Chris Childs AND Allan Houston.
As for your concerns with great players being moved, the players I am talking about have outs in their contract (Melo, Arenas, Lebron, Wade, Kobe). These players control their own destiny. If they choose to opt out, the team is screwed (see Seattle with Rashard Lewis). Seattle tried to extend him for 2 years, but Rashard said NOPE! Each player I mentioned has the same opt out ability. Totally different scenario as opposed to a player’s contract simply running out (Antwan Jamison for example and Stephon Marbury next season).
Look at it this way. Crawford and Curry both have the ability to LEAVE following next season. They have opt out options the Knicks don’t control. They can follow the same path Rashard Lewis took and leave the Knicks with nothing anyway.
It’s easy to figure out how Philly got Utah’s #1 pick this year. They’re a team going to the playoffs. They needed to clear out Giricek, who wasn’t working out for them and they got a piece they figured could help their bench. They thought it was OK to make the trade. The Sixers got compensated for absorbing Utah’s headache by taking the pick and losing a long term deal. Utah got rid of their headache, got a younger player and absorbed 15 million in salary over the next 3 years. As far as I am concerned, these are the kinds of trades poor teams make to get themselves in a better position cap-wise AND get themselves draft picks. Kudos to the Sixers. Kudos to the Jazz for strengthening their bench and removing a player who the coach had issues with. It’s a win win for both teams. The Jazz need that 1st rd pick like I need another credit card bill. Same goes for playoff bound teams.
MODI- Curry needs to fetch us those 2 draft picks we lost. I would be happy with that. I would also be happy if we had the ability to sign a player and replace his contract slot. I want NOTHING but empty contracts back for Curry. I want the ability to secure someone who can actually play. Why trade Curry for another bum? Been there done that. If we can’t find someone via free agency, so be it. We’re going to suck. That’s that! Why compound the problem by trading Curry for “talent” or “somebody”? That’s what got us in this mess in the first place with Ewing/Rice/Shandon Anderson/Howard Eisley. I rather us have the chance to get someone via free agency or the lottery than expect us to rise again by suckering someone into giving us a future star for Curry. THAT scenario is NOT happening in our lifetime, man. I rather them forego the trading Curry for equal talent part and allow the Knicks the ability to go find that talent at their discretion.
Blow this up before the trade deadline. Package Curry, Crawford, Miss-Q-Rich, Malik Rose in seperate deals, get us a bunch of draft picks and give us the flexibility to sign some guys who can play some ball. Give Balkman, Lee, Wilson Chandler, Morris, and others a chance to play. This year is OVER. Time to look ahead to the future.
Your point about NYC marketing advantages definitely has merit. All I would say is that as a GM, I would want some under-the-table info. Not necessarily a Joe Smith-to-T-Wolves contract, but some reasonable assurances, even if non-guaranteed.
Curry lost 1.5 draft picks. Remember that the 2nd one was essentially a Joakim Noah for Chandler “swap”.
The problem with the Ewing trade is that we received aging garbage in return (Rice was cooked!)… Your strategy notwithstanding, would a Curry/Nate for Okafor package mean anything to you? Okafor might leave anyway.
MODI- That trade won’t work under the salary cap, Modi, unless Charlotte agrees to a sign and trade, which isn’t likely. Curry did cost us positioning in the draft, though. Hey, in order to get a guarantee from a potential free agent about to opt out, you have to have cap space to offer the guy a huge contract. If Okafur DID want to play for the Knicks, but Charlotte didn’t want any of the Knick players, guess where Okafur goes? Somewhere else! If the Knicks had some cap room, he arrives here without an issue.
The idea to blow this up is the right thing to do for many reasons. These characters we have right now aren’t going to get it done minus Marbury. The “minus Marbury” era is fast approaching! Let’s not kid ourselves here. The current starters are pathetic. Randolph is the only character worth keeping and I’m not sure he is playoff material either. That makes this team a total disaster. Watching them play minus Stephon is absolutely frightening. There is NOTHING to look forward to. I’m not excited about Collins. Nate can go. Chandler has not been given a shot. Lee is OK. He isn’t a starter right now. Miss-Q-Rich looks fried. Jamal Crawford isn’t a starter for a good team. Curry can’t play unless he gets 15-20 shots, and he still can’t rebound. Rose is a bum. Jeffries is a borderline backup/bum. Fred Jones is a bum. Balkman is a 6th man. Where is our future? I’ll tell you where! Our future is on another roster and in the future NBA Drafts. We’re toast if Isiah doesn’t blow this up.
I don’t know who wouldn’t be in favor of blowing this up after seeing Salmons and Garcia HUMILIATE Miss-Q-Rich and Crawford.
Okay… at some point the Knicks just have to win. All this analysis analyzing why they haven’t been winning is all well and good, and i can’t argue with most of it, but at some point they have to start winning.
The Knicks just got blown out at home to the Kings, THE KINGS, and not the C-Webb, Vlade, Peja circa 2000 version. They got dominated by Salmons, Garcia, and Brad Miller. RON ARTEST DIDN’T EVEN PLAY. If not for the Heat, the Knicks would have the worst record in the East. The WORST!!! and this is team that has avoided significant injuries this year.
So when Isiah Thomas talks about not leaving until they win a championship and restoring pride in the Knicks uniform, like he did for the Pistons, and how he feels like he’s building something and some of the guys he has know will be part of a championship. And that a trade isn’t needed! wha?! You tend to be a little skeptical and you begin to question his objectivity (and maybe even his sanity). How is this team going to be markedly better in the second half of the year, how is this team as presently contructed going to better next year? Curry can get better, but he’s never going to be Shaq, Marbury’s best days are behind him, Lee & Balkman will never be all stars, neither will nate or jones.
Yes, Isiah’s acquired some nice talent, but last I checked the league wasn’t about collecting talent but winning games (although I bet IT cleans up in his fantasy league). Watching these Knicks makes you long for the good-old-days of one and done in the playoffs.
Jones, I most definitely feel your pain. So much so, that i couldn’t even write about it after the game. I actually believe that there is some truth to the Isiah sanity thing right now. I honestly think that all the pressure is truly affecting his mind. His statements and substitution patterns have seemed to have lost it. He seems to have lost it to some degree. His line-up alterations are now about as crazy as Larry browns, but the craziest part is that he never even TRIES the best ones. Isiah needs to step down yesterday.
As humiliating yesterday’s loss to Sactown was, I was already in terrible spirits before two points were scored. Eddy and Zach were starting together again. This told me that Isiah never actually realized that this pairing is lethal, ONLY that he was trying to “send a message”.
For me the most frustrating aspect to the season is that I have not seen one single game that has been coached correctly. Not one. All I wanted this year was to see one stretch of games this year with Marbury and Lee starting, Craw and Curry off the bench, no dual minutes from Randloph and Curry, Q in a suit, Renaldo getting at least 20 minutes. Just a stretch of 8 games or something. Just ONE stretch. Yesterday’s decision to start Zach-Eddy indicates that it would never happen.
Jimmy, while I see more value in some of our players than you, perhaps you are right. Perhaps the one stretch that I’ve been longing for will never ever happen. Also, when Marbury was back in, you can see an obvious increase in ball movement.
How about Curry & Nate for Okafor and Carroll?
MODI- These guys quit on Isiah. When that happens, one of two things need to happen. Either the coach gotta go or the players who aren’t trying gotta go. In my eyes, I think Crawford, Curry and Miss-Q-Rich gotta go, because it seems to me that Dolan isn’t losing Zeke this season. These players either don’t have it, or aren’t trying. The time has come to blow this up if Isiah isn’t stepping down. Get these woefully overrated guys out of here. Let’s get some guys who specialize in things. Lets get a forward whose specialty is scoring. Lets get a shooting guard whose specialty is shooting from the outside with effectiveness. Lets get a center who is actually a center for the defense.
That trade is perfect, but I doubt the Bobcats would do it until after the season is over. If Charlotte finds out that Okafor doesn’t want to return and wants a bigger deal, they might be in it for a trade. I doubt the trade goes down, but I would be MORE than happy if they do make this trade a reality.
“Lets get a forward whose specialty is scoring”
Check. Ron Artest wants to come home and will be here next year PLUS some defense. I believe that the FULL maxed mid-level exception just might do it.
Lets get a shooting guard whose specialty is shooting from the outside with effectiveness. Lets get a center who is actually a center for the defense.
Curry and Balkman for Okafor and Carroll. Ist that deal better? Hell throw in Nate since we have so many 2 guards…
New Starting 5: Okafor, Randolph, Artest, Marbury and OJ Mayo!
Bench: Lee, Crawford, Carroll, Chandler, Jeffries
MODI- From your mouth to God’s ears! I would like to dump Crawford and add Antawn Jamison to this team, but that might be asking too much. I don’t think Ron is going to take a paycut by coming here, Modi. We can’t max him for more than 5 million per, and he is scheduled to earn 8 million next year. Malik Rose, Nate and Chandler for Artest might be the ticket if the Kings want to do something soon.
Modi-
I too am amazed at how easily the ball moves around the court w/ Steph in. Isiah as I stated earlier has a poor ability to foresee sequences. Not only that, there are many times during games where he is sitting in that chair on the sideline as opposed to walking the sideline/ coaches box and being vocal. With such an inexperienced team (collectively) you have to be on top of them. I dont not favor his lay back approach or his body language from one possesion to the next. It seems as if he expects this bunch to execute profienctly without his tutorial.
For one, asking one man to run a Franchise and Coach it simultaneously may professionally massage your ego a bit, but realisticly without real basketball IQ’s surrounding you it will turn into what we are seeing. The logical explaination for HIS Franchise player’s tremenedous regression is not based on any one players acquistion(Zach)or how he is being micro managed,but how the PLAYER himself assess’s his development. Eddy is not mature or wise enough to realize how his deficiencies, poor shape, and OVERALL NBA knowledge is needed for his growth to continue.
Isiah and Mark A. ,over the course of last season made Eddy as effecient as anybody from a scoring stand point. It was just 2weeks ago that Curry’s inabilities were fairly exposed(by coach via media) ,critiqued, and against the Cavs Eddy’s Play proved Isiah was only wrong about Curry’s ongoing potential. If this…Curry really wants to be a force on the defensive-end, all he need do is apply himself- There is no effort at all in that department. But their is no desire to play defense “NOW” All Isiah hashed on this team(last 2 seasons) was scoring and offensive consistancy. Which is what everybody thought would fix these offense droughts they we went thru so often over the last few years.
Just wanted to point out to you one more thing….Look at every team who has won a title since 1999… The relationship between the coach and the teams best player (on the court), total trust. The Lakers,Spurs,Pistons,&Heat. Expect for Flip Saunders, these coaches are Hall of Fame Status, however each understand more than anything that Social Situations dictate what happens on the court.These New York Knickerbockers are not good enough YET to play thru all of these outside distractions,and inexperienced Staff. The last 12years have proven to me that experience is the number one ingredient for what we all long for.What coach outside of the afore mentioned have been able to to succeed with this much pressure and expectation.
Rest assured no matter what players you have on the court, no matter what their talent level, they can not win without a leader(s). Nor can they compete at the highest level without a comprehensive strategic script. As suspect as Jamal’s shot selection is.. he is the only Knick right now that is going to be a warrior and ride with Isiah!!
Yes he has lost his players…But after all that has transpired over his ruin here, what (Franchise)player is going to bat for him. He is by no means honorable ,he does not deserve this privilage any longer. Please someone,anyone.. give him a map.
EHUS- Nice theory, but this team needs a guy who blocks shots from the center position. You put Tim Duncan on the Knicks and we are a playoff team. Eddy Curry is a 6’10″ fat forward. He is a center only because he weighs nearly 300lbs. He has short arms, poor lateral movement and no athleticism to block shots. His defensive instincts never developed, so the speed needed to pick up his game he will always be 3 steps behind everyone else. He is FOREVER a step slow. You can forgive him if he were 20 years old. The man is 25. All this leadership talk is cute on paper, but you win this excessive talent on the baseline. Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace. Shaq and Udonis. Tim Duncan. The one common denominator is the big man on the baseline with the ability to give team just one shot at the basket and the ability to stuff your shot back down your throat if you’re a smaller guy coming into the paint. That’s what basketball is all about. All the heroic talk about leaders is bullshit in my opinion. Defense wins rings and Eddy Curry plain sucks on defense. That’s the bottom line. As they say in the parks…”Curry just can’t play”
Jimmy, he probably won’t take the mid-level, but I’m wondering how many teams will offer him the full 6 years based on Artests questions about stability. The length of the contact might trump the yearly amount.
Ehus, many of us have given the map, but Isiah won’t use it!!! I swear that sometimes I think that he is tanking games purposely when he keeps his best players on the bench. But I agree that interior defense is #1 need with outside shooting next. Unlike most I believe that Curry could still be an asset to a team that pairs him up with a strong shotblocker and defender (see Marcus Camby and yes, Tyson Chandler!) that doesn’t need the ball.
Modi,
I’m beginning to sense that there may be some truth to that theory. It may be conspiratorial but then again, it is the N.B.A. and the NYK.
I also noted the lack of coaching, not calling out set plays, not calling TOs when it seemed clear that the players resorted to mano a mano playground tactics and away from the team concept. If it is true that we are in the Powerball, then it must be with the full blessings of JD. We the fans must simply bear it and find another pastime. As a fellow Jets fan, you know what’s good.
Steady, the not calling out set plays drives me crazy. Marbury is the only PG who ever calls a play and works the ball around. Nate and Jamal try to take their man off the dribble every time with the only exception being dumping it in to Curry or Zach… This drives me crazy to no end.
JIM- I agree w/ you with reagards to a BIGMAN!! But while you have a fat slow responding foward/Center, He should still be laying opposition down on their backs.
1. I am sick of these knick-knack fouls he picks up. If your gonna foul somebody….FUCK HIM UP!
a. Josh Howard flys to the basket and uses off hand to deter Curry from a blk. and Clocks him in the mouth…As Josh drove to the hole I screamed aloud “Lay him out!!”. Curry comes out of the exchange with a golf ball nestled on his mouth. This is a result of weak and timid defense.
b. If the MAVS want to fight.. because we knock out one of their premire players, LETS DO IT!! , the worsty that could happen is a few suspensions,the team bands together again (see. DENVER BRAWL…SEE VAN GUNDY in Miami)
2. Intimidation on the Knicks behalf is at an ALL TIME low.
3. Fear over Respect..i rather you be scared of coming down my lane or my BASELINE..while great interior D is always needed…I would love to watch this New Breed of pre Madonna’s throw up prays in fear of getting Decked.
What happpen to the GAME INSIDE THE GAME?
Ehus,
You be tellin’ on yo self calling for that type of game. We were spose to be Nice and Nasty. All I see is a bunch of wusses! paid though, but wussies nevertheless.
EHUS- Curry is only aggressive around the dinner table. This guy is a joke in the paint. Expecting him to clobber people is like waiting for a shark to walk on water. This kid is the epitome of soft.
Ehus, I’m with you. Remeber the days with Oakley and Mason charging a toll if you came down the lane with patrick waiting as shotblocking insurance afterwards. Whe the Knicks oWNED home court and especially 4th quarters… Ahhhhhh the good old days…
Ehus,
At http://www.Knicksdefense.com, Eddie (too soft to get the y) is affectionately known as Puff (as in the Magic Dragon) or on some other days, some cats try to hook him up with Dorothy and round trip ticket to see the Wizard (now that we know he’s physically OK and just snackin’ all the time).
BTW, you NYK fans should come check us out over there and throw in some of your theories. We sure could use the LOLs.
Let me seconds Steady’s statement: knicksDefense is the best Knick website on the internet by far. Not only are all the commenters knowledgeable but they are actually REAL fans!
Steady//JIM- Indeed!,However I will say “Whatever he ate off of Last Night’s menu… !@#$%, Give that man a second helping prunto. “Chef!! One more special order…THAT’S RIGHT- Hold the ZACHPEPPER!!!”
Modi- When you taking it back LIKE THAT.. you are being real….It seemed like only yesterday’.. Marv Albert,4th quarter crowd going nuts,felt like MSG could make the EARTH Shake’n'Quake.
MJ put on his best Hiking Boots to Climb Mount P.E. and plant His flag(ANDONE!), Though it was on Patrick,He skipped on Kiki VandeIcanShootFromFarAWAY’, John0-17Starks,& Charles ‘THEOAKMAN’ Oakley(TOP10 play of ALLTIME). ‘All of whom, if fate had linked/employed them to this current franchise .. it may have restored some of THE GUTZ that have been spilling all over the road(1-12). Right the Good OL’days!!!
MODI- TWO WORDS…, RON ARTEST. It is very risky but, If it will make Richardson a memory or a reserve permanently i would sign for that yesterday,in half a heart beat.
EHUS- I think we should hold the Monterey JackCrawford cheese in the 4th quarter. We should have been given some Stephon Marbury in the 4th quarter as the main cuisine.
Ron Artest is that nasty type individual we are lacking. He is someone who would bring the fire back in Stephon Marbury 1-2-3. Ron is also someone who would stand up to Crawford and slap some sense into him in the locker. I couldn’t play with a punk like Crawford. Crawford is as soft as they come. See how Nate Robinson fouls hard? He NEVER gives anyone a layup. It would be nice to see Crawford make someone feel uncomfortable with a hard shot foul once in a while.
It was nice seeing Miss-Q-Rich spend more time posting up the hotdog vendor than he did posting up on the court. That STIFF only took 2 shots all game long. Thank the LORD for that!
[...] Bird gets a pass for his failings (this fact has been chronicled by MODI at “Cosellout” better than by any other writer or sports media outlet) while [...]
[...] Bird gets a pass for his failings (this fact has been chronicled by MODI at “Cosellout” better than by any other writer or sports media outlet) while [...]
Why don’t you compare Isiah to another Larry? I am thinking about Larry Brown, and his 23 wins. I do not understand a single reason why would you keep defending uncompetent Isiah. Go back and read what you said for the expectations of this season.
nenad, I already DID compare Isiah to Larry Brown and in many articles criticized isiah’s pitiful coaching performance this year. I’ve been his harshest coaching critic and advocated his firing back in December. I also wrote this about his coaching a few months back. http://www.cosellout.com/?p=192
This particular article is about the MEDIA and their responsibility. The NY Daily News was just flat out wrong no matter what your personal opinion about isiah’s employment.
I do not recall you said anything agains Isiah. What is about your book “Isiah Genious”
NYDaily News was in support of Isiah’s firing, so if you support that now, why would you critize them.
omg taylor was awsome she is the best
i love this song so much!!!