Yesterday COSELLOUT reported, despite losing to the San Antonio Spurs, why the Knicks played their best game of the year. The biggest factor?: The NBA’s one game suspension on Zach Randolph forcing Isiah Thomas to eliminate the Zach-Eddy combo for one game. The hope from that Spurs game was predictably fleeting as the next night Zach and Eddy were starting right alongside each other. By the time the 1st quarter ended, the Knicks were down by 14 points. The Knicks ended up losing the game by 12. Not one Knick fan was surprised. These significant 1st quarter deficits with Eddy and Zach starting have been the story of the season (okay, one of the stories!).
Before we get all super statistical about this, we should note that analyzing 1st quarters is no exact science which doesn’t take into account chemistry with other players, substitutions, Stephon Marbury’s prolonged absence, ot times during quarters when Zach and Curry are not on the floor. Having stated that, the results are overwhelming — and no extended analysis should really be necessary. Their scoring talents are duplicative and cancel each other out and the interior defense with both in the game is pure swiss cheese. Together they nullify all of Marbury’s talents by turning a “penetrate-and-disher” into a “down-low-dumper” to satisfy both men. But forget all that, here is “the 1st quarter report” on the Eddy-Zach starting combo.
Eddy-Zach Starting – The 1st Quarter Report:
B. Up 5 points after the First Quarter
C. Other Notes why Eddy and Zach should never play another minute together:
Competitive (within 4 points) = 12 games
Knicks Clearly Lose Quarter/Disaster(- 5 or more) = 18 Games
Vegas Odds of Eddy/Zach pairing based on first 25 combo starts
40% = Remain Competitive (10 of 25)
60% = Clearly lose quarter or Game Over
STOP THE MADNESS!: No team can be psychologically saddled with digging themselves out of a deficit every single night. Please get this info to Isiah or one of his trusted assistants! At this point keeping Eddy and Zach on the floor together amounts to intentionally tanking games on par with Larry Brown closing out 4th quarters with the legendary Jackie Butler. This must be stopped! If the Knicks are to get ridiculed, mocked, and be nation’s punchline, then the least we could do is play our best players and combinations and earn that mockery. No more Eddy-Zach combo, start Lee, sit Q, let Renaldo out of jail, and let the Knicks only true point guard (Marbury) run the point. Stop the madness!!!
———————————————————————–
Side Note on Zach:
In a directly related note. The New York Times’ Howard Beck (New York’s best Knick beat writer) begins his article: Randolph Returns; Losing Never Left with this:
"The question [to Isiah] was a little convoluted and complex, but the premise was clear enough: how could the Knicks play so well against the San Antonio Spurs on Friday, add a highly productive Zach Randolph on Saturday and yet be soundly beaten by a lesser Houston Rockets team?"
Isiah either wasn’t prepared to answer the question or wasn’t prepared to alienate his players with a truthful response, but we will. The symbolic answer comes at 3:50 in the third quarter of last night’s game. At that time Zach did one of his patented spin moves as three Houston defenders converged on him. Many of the other open but just KNEW that the ball would not be passed. At the very top of the screen you can see a never more open and, perhaps, never more naive Stephon Marbury waving his hands up and down at the 3-point line hoping to catch the corner of Zach’s determined eye. The pass out to Marbury had a perfectly clear lane. Zach with head down as usual, either didn’t see him or just plain ignored him. Before the screen shifted you could see Marbury’s arms come down as his shoulders visibly shrugged in disappointment as the play unfolded. Zach went on to miss the shot, and grab one of his own season high 22 rebounds, then get fouled, and get two of his 18 points at the line. Zach believes he has done a good job. After all, the stat sheet proves it, doesn’t it? However, four teamates felt alienation. When Zach learns to pass that ball – EVEN if it results in a miss — then the Knicks might start winning consistently. Everybody at work has a colleague like Zach who individually excels, but seems to bring the overall work environment down. Zach is that guy.
Most Knick fans deciding between keeping Curry or Zach want to keep Zach because of his considerable rebounding prowess that bests the one-trick-pony that is Curry. I prefer Curry next to a solid dirty work defender and Lee off the bench. Neither Zach or Curry pass out of the double-team very well, but there are two distinctions. One, Curry is already down on the low block when he takes on multiple defenders and Zach is out on the perimeter — hence Curry’s higher shooting percentage. But the main difference is that, Curry — after being routinely double-teamed for the first time last year — hasn’t LEARNED how to effectively pass out of it. On the other hand Zach doesn’t WANT to pass out of it. Besides a few games when he tried to play team ball, Zach is straight-up selfish about his stats. He wants that "20-10" tag, but the Knicks need a "10-10-4 + defense" from that position. Perhaps if I watched a few Portland games the last few years, it would not have taken this long to draw this conclusion that so many others already talked about. My bad. Curry will not stop growth and development of other players, but Zach seems to do that as the ball always seems to stop on the perimeter when it touches his hands. I only see Zach as valuable on a contending team that defines his role upon arrival (see Adrian Dantley to Pistons or Antoine Walker to Heat). …but maybe I’m wrong… or maybe we have all played enough full court pick-up games to know EXACTY what Marbury felt when he shrugged his shoulders and what enough of those shrugs can do to a team…
Related:
- Eddy-Zach Blues Part I: An Analysis of All Knicks 1st Quarters
- Eddy-Zach Blues Part II: Houston and Season Deja Vu
- Eddy-Zach Blues Part III: Knicks Spot 10 Points Again
More:
- Knicks Line-Up Change 10 Point Plan: Open Letter to Isiah
- Blame COACH Isiah, 7 Reasons where Isiah Went Wrong
- Fire Isiah: Is Mass Hysteria Real or Media-Fueled?
Feel free to publish this cartoon or link to it…..we know Knicks fans will get a chuckle. We need to laugh so we don’t cry!
http://dangerstman.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/01/tattoo-isiah.html
I’m just not into the ridicule thing… When I feel like crying, I offer solutions that Isiah will never read, but hope that it just might luckily make its way to him or one of his assistants anyway!
Modi here’s the problem with your theory. Isiah doesn’t appear to realize he’s doing anything wrong. His teams in NY have never had a winning record for a full season. So instead of trying to build a coherent team built around Eddy Curry’s growing dominance (and hiring Tim Grover to whip him into physical condition and Charles Oakley to toughen him up) what Isiah did was diminish one strength to make another strength of exactly the same type.
“Isiah doesn’t appear to realize he’s doing anything wrong.”
This is the mindboggling part, but doesn’t he have any assistants? Isn’t mark Aguirre his boy? Is ther anyone on the staff to tell him what’s up? Thomas obviously has loyalties (see Eddy-Zach pairing; Jamal; and Q), but that is why you have assistants… I would think anyway…
Isiah thinks he can win without a dominant center playing defense. This isn’t about Curry’s scoring. This is about his entire game. He doesn’t stop anyone from scoring! His defense is awful. I don’t care if he averages 23 a game (he never will because he sucks at the line and he doesn’t have enough skill moves at the center position), his defense is THE TEAM’S downfall. I hope he is smart enough to re-build his trade value, so he can get him outta here.
Completely agree.
As someone said on RGM, you ideally want neither, b/c of the inherent defensive lapses and “ball movement issues”, but Curry has a VASTLY better career TS%, is the better shotblocker (not that anyone’s counting since we’re talking peanuts here, but still…), he’s younger, AND like you commented – he’s atleast WILLING to involve his teammates.
Course the fact that he’s also paid less, and at a more valuable position, is good enough an explanation for most.
Of course the best solution would be to rebuild Curry’s value and trade him for draft picks. It is very hard to win without a dominant defensive bug man. Curry’s contract is more reasonable and as such, he is more movable. Ideally, we should trade both and try to obtain a good center in the draft who rebounds and plays defense. Curry lacks the instinct to play quality defense. He is a classic tease player.
“a classic tease player”
I love that.
Ryan, I have this dream that Curry will come back after next season in great shape… its’s a dream…
most definitely… a classic tease player…
I do think that Curry can have value, but ONLY if he is pair with a defensive shotblocker along side him… you know, someone like… Tyson Chandler…
modi- You suspect Isiah maybe tanking games, why?
Is a deal for Chris Kaman, Andre KiriLenko, or Jermaine Oneal realistic…
I don’t think that he is tanking, it’s just that some of his moves are so inixplicable that it can’t be ruled out that he might want to be put out of his misery. I put the possibility at a 5% chance.
Because of his big contract, and the fact that the Pacers are going no where for years to come, I think that Jermaine is obtainable. The question is if Bird is willing to deal with Isiah after he unceremoniously dumped him as coach three years ago.
Modi, excellent analysis. I hadn’t wanted to jump on the “It’s Zach’s fault” bandwagon, but it is hard to ignore the evidence. This is essentially the same Knicks team as last season, minus it’s biggest headache player (Francis), and plus a solid 20-10 player (Randolph is an even better rebounder than anticipated). So why do they struggle?
I think you hit it right on the nail when you point out that teammates don’t mind feeding Curry – he’s well liked, and a very efficient player. He’ll score, get fouled, or miss, but because he’ll have at least two defenders on him, the weakside rebound is going to be there (Lee’s speciality) for the grabbing.
With Randolph shooting jumpers from the perimeter, it might be a bit demoralizing to the guards.
I think the move would be to establish Curry as the primary offensive player again (since he is the most effective), reduce Randolph to a David Lee like rebounder and finisher only (no perimeter shots), and limit his minutes, not Curry’s.
Is it worth asking the question of whether or not the Knicks have a perimeter shooting guard more deserving of shots than Mr. Randolph. It seems to me that the shooting efficiency and types of shots taken by Knick guards leave a great deal to be desired.
I have to say, though, that Eddie Curry’s energy level is dispiriting. He always seems to need a pillow. I don’t know the source of the problem (perhaps his heart diagnosis), but it has to be a concern.
Modi,
With regards to Thomas’s unceremonious everything at this point…What if anything, can he draw from all of this inconsistant play. Usually when a team is playing as dismal as we have, there is a bright spot or shall we say something to look foward to. What the HELL can we take from what we have seen so far?
Zach has no playoff experience at all. And as far as that 20 game experiment w/ the two (E&Z) in and out …I vote to watch the games w/ Eddy in…Zach has taking away from everybodies production…individually and we may never get to say collectively!!
Nate McMillian…knew exactly what he was getting rid of.
O’..
have you read New York Times”Curry and Randolph May Be One Big Man Too Many ” by Howard Beck?
SML, I think that I’m saying that the pairing is terrible first more than simply scapegoating Zach. I would LOOOOOVE if Lee stayed in the post. He would be unstoppable!!!
Temple, I don’t know what Zach’s perimeter shooting % is, but I suspect that it is low because his shooting .453 BUT that includes many low post baskets (unlike most guards). I suspect he is under 40% on the perimeter but am not sure. The there are two other factors. When he shoots the knicks do not have their best rebounder under the basket. Finally, the other issue that i have is that the ball stops when he touches it, it would be nice if he worked it around the perimeter to explore better options first… …having stated that, you are correct that “that the shooting efficiency and types of shots taken by Knick guards leave a great deal to be desired”. That brings up a separate set of problems!
Ehus, the only thing to look forward to is Isiah realizing at some point in time that Eddy-Zach together will not work and no longer play them together. With marbury back at the point I am looking forward to seeing that. …trades would also be nice! …no, I hadn’t read the Beck article, but just read it now. …his info cited at 82 games points toward Curry as the bigger issue… very interesting… where does that leave us? SPLIT THEM UP and figure the rest out later!!!
Modi,Trades are a must.Eddy and Zach blew up in Isiah’s face..It blew up in front of all our faces.. I am sure of the locker room chemistry factor though,Zach seems very illogical regarding small is issues..The guy got ejected and suspended and we haven’t even reached the mid-way point. Hey.. he lost me with that play vs. the Pacers. You are correct that play not only somed up the 1/4 of the season,but his career,those stats are padded like you know what..He is exspendable!!VERY!!Unless of course he has 8Blks in the next games.
I have been a Portland fan for 30 years. In all of that time, no player has been over-hyped more then Z-Bo. When the trade went down, and Portland got killed by the media, I was in shock. Hadn’t anyone seen Randolf play? I suppose the answer was no. In this age where there is more video of players then ever before, it is pathetic that the Knicks couldn’t pick up on Z-Bo’s selfish play before the trade. Another thing would be to look at Portlands record without Z-Bo last year, 9 wins/2 losses. You are correct is assuming that he will stunt the growth of every other player brought in (case in point, the play this year of Travis Outlaw and Martel Webster).
The really bad thing is now that Z-Bo is in New York, he has been exposed for what he truly is. It will be difficult to impossible to move him now. I guess one benefit of being in a small market is that, every once in awhile, you can screw a team into taking a pile of crap off of your hands.
Dan- I am sure Isiah was/is aware of Zach’s tendendies. If in fact we are unable to move him, it would not be the worst case scenerio.
I expect him to figure out what’s good by mid-season. Although his selfish play has hurt us collectively-it can be REVERSED.
HIS statistics are not being effected…So, Many experts will suggest his skill set is a piece that belongs to another puzzle. HE must understand that his team needs him to bring a professional package- to compliment his BLOATED salary.
NYK dont need anymore SOCIAL mis-fits, **what happen to just Basketball.. Zach!
The off the court behavior translates on the basketball floor.
Zach is well aware of HIS self worth…Therefore, there should be no problem moving HIS ARTIFICIAL 20/10!… In this “DO U” DAY IN AGE,many NBA Franchises have become a nestling ground for the GIFTED INEXPERIENCE. Zach has come along in an Era in which sacrifice is as essential as THOUGHTS,You think Isiah isn’t gonna wipe up all the crap he poops everywhere?..If he doesn’t- Stern will. Hey’ who’s got money to waste on appeals for suspensions anyway?
Dan, the Portland perspective is very much appreciated. Where were you in June!!!!!! Thanks for that 9-2 record info.
Ehus, i can forgive the headband and Indiana bonehead plays. Too many 3 on 1 drive I can’t! But you are right. We need trades. but as far as the Zach-Eddy pairing it will never work no matter what. I is a structural flaw regardless. The Knicks defense simply cannot survive. Period. if they play separately, then there is a chance.