“The strategy is to continue to chaos in this party. Look, there is a reason for this. Our side is not going to do this. Obama needs to be bloodied up. Look, half the country already hates Hillary. That is good. But nobody hates Obama yet. Hillary is going to be the one to have to bloody him up politically, because our side isn‘t going to do it. Mark my words. It‘s about winning, folks.” – Rush Limbaugh’s March 3rd Radio Show On “Why We Want to Keep Hillary Alive"
Their names are not Hannity, Coulter, or O’Reilly, and their differences are as wide as the Grand Canyon. Their past public service is proof of that. But in the end those facts may just be semantics. Senator Clinton’s campaign missteps and verbal alignment with John McCain are easily explainable: "personal-ambition-gone-wild". But what about everyone else? An inexplicable failure “to see the big picture” has made past 70-something pioneers such as Ralph Nader, Gloria Steinem, and Geraldine Ferraro as leading candidates to help another 70-something year old becomes the next President of the United States.
Ralph Nader and The Meaning of "Less Evil": Is it possible to wipe out the positives of 40 tremendous years of public service to America with one tragic decision. Yes, and then some. For those bad at math, Ralph Nader gained nearly 100,000 votes in the Florida 2000 election while Al Gore lost by 537. Nader is still one of America’s fiercest critics against the war in Iraq, yet more than any American not named George W. Bush, he could have prevented that war. He is correct that Gore slipped on 20 banana peels, but Nader clearly ensured his fall by refusing to drop out of the race. During his campaign Nader justified his candidacy by saying “the lesser of two evils is still evil”. In 2008, “less evil” now has a quantifiable price tag: About 4000 dead American soldiers; another 30,000 wounded; over 80,000 dead Iraqi civilians; close to one TRILLION dollars that suck the life out of our domestic budget; and exponentially more terrorists who wish America harm. Details, details. Nader teaches a very painful and valuable lesson in the political “idealism” vs. “pragmatism” debate. He proves that standing by principle merely for its own sake is no principle at all. It means nothing to say you stood on the side of right, if it meant aiding and abetting the side of wrong. What did Nader learn from his past "idealism-gone-wild"? In February, he announced that he will once again run for President of the United States…
Gloria Steinem and "Either/Or" Propositions: By the 1970’s, Gloria Steinem became the public face of the feminist movement. She has done more to promote equal rights in America than 99.99% of other Americans could ever dream. Unlike Nader’s big decision, one little New York Times article should have absolutely no bearing on such a legacy. Having stated that, what January’s “Women are Never Front-Runners” did was intellectually legitimize the idea that “the gender barrier” is more politically restrictive than “the racial barrier”. Amongst other items that sparked debate, what was glaring about the article were its obvious omissions. Steinem never mentioned that there have been: only three elected African-American Senators and only two elected African-American Governors since Reconstruction; or that there are currently 24 women Senators and Governors alone in 2008. Other omissions, and the dangers of “either/or feminism” are explained by Kimberle Crenshaw and Eve Ensler in “Feminist Ultimatums”:
“Armed with indignant exasperation, this “either/or” camp converts the undeniable misogyny of the media into an imperative to vote for Clinton. …the “either/or” feminists nonetheless remind us that the Black (man) got the vote before the (white) woman, that gender barriers are more rigid than racial barriers, that sexism is everywhere and racism is not, that a female Obama wouldn’t get nearly as far as a Barack Obama, and that a woman’s vote for Clinton is scrutinized while a male vote for Obama is not….Never mind of course that real suffrage for African Americans wasn’t realized until the 1960s, that there are any number of advantages that white women have in business, politics and culture that people of color do not; that all around the world women’s route to political leadership is through family dynasty which is virtually closed to marginalized groups, and that the double standard of stigmatizing Obama’s Black voters as racially motivated while whitewashing Clinton’s white voters as "just voters" constitutes the exact same double standard that the "either/or feminists" bemoan. The "either/or" crowd surprisingly claims that the two Democratic candidates are more alike than different, yet those who gravitate to Obama find their motives questioned and their loyalties on trial.”
Geraldine Ferraro’s Sour White Grapes: In terms of public service, Geraldine Ferraro is not quite Nader or Steinem. As the first and only woman vice presidential candidate, any pioneer status is more symbolic in nature. And last week the former Congresswoman rightfully came under fire when she stated: “If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is." We have already covered why her own VP appointment is an irrelevant analogy. What was not covered was her talk show circuit tantrum the next day in which she went on and on how offended SHE was: "Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let’s address reality and the problems we’re facing in this world, you’re accused of being racist, so you have to shut up… I really think they’re attacking me because I’m white. How’s that?"
… Doing just about everything but actually saying "abracadabra", Ferraro successfully "flipped-the-script" in making herself the victim instead of the perpetrator. In almost O’Reillyesque fashion, it was now Ferraro who was now being attacked because of HER skin color, not because of her ludicrous statement. It was no longer about her very own specific words that came out of her own specific mouth, but rather "ANYTIME" that "ANYBODY" that does "ANYTHING" in "ANY" way… Her language and outraged tone were very clear: she was now speaking on behalf of ALL white people who were ever falsely called "the R-word" at ANY time. In doing so, there was no discussion on the "A-word" as in the "ABSURD" original statement — or "patently absurd" as Obama qualified. While Ferraro immediately changed the subject, no one asked her why Kweisi Mfume wasn’t so "lucky" when running in the primary for the Maryland Senate race in 2006… Or why Michael Steele wasn’t so lucky in that same race’s general election… Or whether Harold Ford was "lucky" in his own Senate bid that same year… No one gave her historical data on African-American Senators or Governors and asked her to explain the foundation of her statement juxtaposed to any actual reality? And no one asked her why she made almost the exact same statement 20 years earlier about Jesse Jackson’s candidacy?
Without hearing any reasonable explanation from Ferraro, we are left to seek out our own. One is the "Hillary-Sacrificial-Lamb" theory that intentionally creates more racial divide to further Ms. Clinton’s campaign. While plausible, this theory has doubts as Ferraro’s level of righteous indignation seemed all too sincere. Then there is the "white-privilege-gone-wild" theory which is expressed well by "Resist Racism" (hat tip to Racialicious): …"White privilege is the sour grape ability to believe that if a person of color earned anything you perceive to be rightfully yours, it must have been because of their color."… Her remarks, her talk show dance, and her 1988 Jesse Jackson replay all support this theory. And "sour grapes" was an interesting choice of words as it is most probably a combination of "white-privilege-gone-wild" AND "sour-grapes-gone-wild" at work. A closer look at Ferraro’s own political career shows that when she ran for statewide Senate seats in both 1992 and 1998, she lost in both primaries. Given her past VP star status and razor thin loss to Robert Abrams in 1992, it is quite reasonable to believe that she would have easily won "if she were a white man". Perhaps Barack Obama’s might also be paying for those losses. And if anyone is unsure about that, Ferraro boldly stated, if not threatened: "If Barak Obama is the candidate, he really shouldn’t antagonize people like me".
Conclusion: Although that last Ferraro statement flew under the media-dust-up-radar, it was probably the most egregious of all her words. It reminded us all that in 2008 that if Barack Obama becomes the Democratic nominee, that sabotage can come from virtually any direction — none of who are named Karl Rove. Absolutist thinking that rigidly pits idealism vs. disloyalty; sexism vs. racism; or personal vs. political will ultimately elect John McCain as our next President. …Don’t worry Mr. Limbaugh, we got the memo.







Ralph Nadar is not a Democrat, he is not obligated at all to support Gore. I don’t understand where the crying is coming from. He had no obligation to do anything to support Gore or the Democratic Party, he doesn’t have to take the L for the Democrats to win if it is a close race, also the Iraq was wasn’t in anyone’s mind at the time, hell 9/11 hadn’t happend yet so again, so bitching and moaining. You will not bring up the votes Buchanon took from Bush in you discussion and you also act like the votes Nadar got would have directly went to Gore, which is unknown.
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Again you bring up numbers but don’t delve into the reason beyond the numbers, why don’t you do that, you know so your argument could be legitimate.
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Already Discussed in the Ferraro thread.
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In 2008 Obama will be attacked by all sides, during the primaries because the Republicans want Hillary to win, and Hillary has a large faction of Democrats who want her to win and have to qualms getting dirty to do it, if he does take the Party’s nomination the Democrat critiques will stop and the Republican ones will probably stay as tame as ever, since McCain loves him some Democrats and will curse someone out if they say anything bad about them.
As for blaming Rush, if you listened to the show at all, you would know he doesn’t support McCain at all.
King od pathetic watching you liberals cry and moan about losing the election. That is the problem with Democrats, they have never been able to get out of the way of their own success and now they are going to lose it. Its a beautiful thing. Like Rush said, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
If being black is a political advantage to Obama, why is it that it is his opponents that keep raising the race issue.
If it is his strength, wouldn’t he be the one raising it, while his opponents would seek to mute it?
I actually think Hillary’s sex is more of a political advantage. Obama’s camp seems to always steer clear from that issue. Her stance on the war is a disadvantage, as Obama’s camp constantly brings it up, while Hillary rarely speaks of it.
OOO -
I don’t see anything hurting Obama in being black. The only thing hurting Obama is his refusal to cut his pastor loose, this is causing him to lose massive ground. Which is kind of funny in a way.
As for his race being his strength, he does raise it. He is always talking about how he sees America as a great country because he “a black man” is in the position he is in , running for the presidency. He brings up his race just as much as Hillary brings up being a woman.
As for Nader, it is not specifically about Gore per se, but his inability to draw a distinction between two candidates with very different views. Since 9-11 he has PROVEN that he basically has a cognitive disorder to judge degrees of harm. No one is more against the war than he is, yet he continues to run. The fact that he is a Democrat is not relevent. The fact that he can’t see the forest from the trees is. And if he WERE able to see the forest from the trees, then he would never to be able to live with himself knowing what he could have prevented. At this point it is probably a psychological protectionism on his part. …Nader’s party is irrelavent. There are many independents who will not run for President PRECISELY because they see the big picture.
“blaming Rush”? Huh?
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ooo, Obama goes so far out of his way to not mention race or diagnose racism that it is the very reason so many like him. His standard anwser to accusation of someone else’s race baiting is “I don’t buy into that”. This is what he must do to win elected office. He barely touched the Jena situation last year, he didn’t attend Tavis Smiley’s annual State of the Black Union Address (Hillary did), and he goes far and wide to avoid “controversial” national black leader (despite his pastor which is differnet). Obama must do all of these things and much more to warm the hearts of his voters who love him because he “transcends race” (I hate that phrase). This is his political reality and that reality is because he is black. He must walk a serious tight rope in any question that brings racial division into it. His ability to do so with an uncanny touch is why he is where he is. It is all skill, a skill that shouldn’t matter for him to become president.
MODI -
No the fact that he is not a democrat is extremely relevent. He is a member of the Green party, he has his own constituents to honor. If you don’t want his party running against Democrats, embrace the issues his party embraces, if you can’t do that he is going to run on the issues that his party supports and it is as clear as that. Your trees for the forest comment doesn’t fit because it is clear while the Green and the Democrats overlap in some areas in others they are as seperate as Dems and Repubs.
As for 3rd parties that will not run because they see the “big picture” get out of here. There are not that many 3rd parties that can generate the support that the Green and Reform parties can command, which is small over all. If they had more parties out there you might see more real change, but that is another discusion.
As for Obama transcending race and such, he doesn’t have to walk a tight rope. he could go to all those meetings as Clinton does, he is just afraid of what he will say. I would think it is because he must share some of the beliefs of his pastor.
http://drudgereport.com/flashos.htm
Obama’s speech for tonight.
Wow he has just killed his candidacy. What an idiot. He couldn’t even come out and say his pastor was wrong and that he was embaraseed by him. This guy continues to side step the damn issue.
Well looks like Hillary won this one, maybe he will ask for that VP spot now.
The Nader question is basic common sense. We don’t have to think on it too hard. Many other idependents with potential followings “get it”. He doesn’t.
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Thank you for that speech! IMO, it is Obama’s finest hour — even if he was obviously forced into it! And he didn’t side-step ANYTHING! Not only did he clearly condemn the words of his pastor, but actually tried to use it to spring board to actually make Americans UNDERSTAND the dynamics of race and racism. More than ever, Obama is what this country needs…
The speech is weak, he wasn’t forceful in condemning his pastor or his message, instead he goes for the side step of “some people percieve America that way”, which is weak sauce. He really should have come out firing instead of the passive aggressive stuff, its going to kill him. This along with the lose coming in Pennsylvania is going to kill him.
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As for Nadar, you are simply wrong. He doesn’t have to do anything but run for his party to the best of his ability. If his party was not supporting him you would have a point but they do support him and strongly. Also there is no evidence to suggest they would automatically go to the Dems if he wasn’t there, I know a great deal of his people are fringe environmentalist and weed-legalizers.
MODI
precisely. The fact that Obama is Black is not inherently an asset.
But he is turning it into an asset by exposing the obvious self-serving nature of the racial criticism that he gets.
Initially his opponents tried to paint him as “not Black enough”. His steered clear of the obvious attempts to draw him into the old racial politics by avoided Jena et al.
The “not Black enough” tact didn’t work, now he is getting the “just another militant Black” treatment with Bill Clinton’s statement after South Carolina tying him to Jesse Jackson, the Ferraro statements, and now the concerted effort to pull Rev Wrights firey rhetoric out of context to try to paint Barack as a militant Black Man.
Obama’s speech today will be an attempt to turn these tactics back on his opponents by rising above the fray and speaking honestly about race. If he is successful he will become even more popular.
I think if Barack can continue to meet these challenges in the Primary it will be very difficult for McCain supporters to copy this playbook in the general election.
BTW Barack will never cut his Pastor loose. That would be suicide for him and exactly what Clinton wants. It would allow her if she wins the Primary to get back Black support.
Of course he shares some of the beliefs of his Pastor. 95% of the Black community shares these beliefs.
I find it interesting that Republicans will run to Bob Jones university, or to Philadelphia, Miss, for their symbolism, but they don’t understand how Black folks are pulled to the preaching of social justice that permeates Black Churches around the country.
He condemned his pastor’s message on at least three separate occasions… Just how many adjectives should he use? The greatness of the speech is that when he is done condemning, he uses it to create a much-needed and very important dialogue. His very appeal is that he would take chances in actually trying to educate America on such matters.
– I’m done discussing Nader. You get it or you don’t.
ooo, don’t forget Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell… and Billy Graham has a history of anti-semitism…
OOO-
Where do you get your idea that 95% of blacks share his Pastor’s beliefs. That is ridiculous.
MODI –
He condemned what he said but he has not publicly denounced him. Which paints the picture that he agrees with the man. He needs to remove all doubt that he disagrees with him and will not tolerate such things being said, alas he didn’t and tried to white wash the incident.
The speech is not going to help him at all.
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Bob Jones University has updated their standards now why can’t Obama’s pastor. Either way, the public outcry caused Bob Jones to right a wrong, Obama should distance himself from his pastor for appearances, at least, he already was taking flack from not denouncing Farrahkahn this is only making it worse for him.
I will reiterate 95% of Blacks share some of Pastor Wrights beliefs. Underline the word SOME!
Unfortunately, a man is defined by the totality of his deeds and beliefs, not by two 30 second sound bytes played over and over by the media.
Pastor Wright’s church is the most popular in Chicago for a reason.
DavidMac, Barack will never get your vote, or the vote of anyone like you so obviously in your mind the speech would not help him. There is nothing that Barack can say that would help him in yours eyes.
Do you honestly think Bob Jones University has updated their standards. That’s laughable.
- If you are going to say some you should leave out the 95%, because it then becomes meaningless.
Those sound bytes tell you a lot about the Pastor. The man is a hate filled racist, and sadly some people flock to folks like that. It is truely sad that he calls himself a Christian but preaches hate like that from the pulpit.
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I’m not talking about the speech as it regards to getting me to vote for him. I’m trying to look at it from the perspective of middle america. Middle america is outraged about the words of his pastor and personally I don’t think he did enough to distance himself away from him, he actually tries to excuse the man for saying what he said, like he did before (a method that did not work), then he tried to lump all blacks together like we all believe that the USA is the devil and evil, by saying some crap like to denounce his pastor is to denounce all of black america (what the hell).
I think he screwed up with the speech big time.
Yes I do believe Bob Jones has updated their rules to the 21st Century in terms of race relations.
I love the addendum – “in terms of race relations” when describing BJU.
As if being dragged and shamed to changing the Institution stance in terms of race means they are in the 21st century.
There stance on homosexuality (as well as many other social issues) is still firmly in the middle ages.
Obama’s speech was excellent!!!! This is a man who deeply understands the racial divisions that exist in America. He is able to speak to both sides without pointing fingers, he is able to come across sincerely when appealing for unity. Will some people be unsatisfied? Sure, but some people are idiots. We just have to hope that most people aren’t. If it isn’t enought as he put it, “in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/18/obama-race-speech-read-t_n_92077.html
Jones, I am right there with you. This man is a L-E-A-D-E-R plain and simple. A brilliant speech that shows the depth of his intelligence. He has an impossible tightrope to walk and he walks it brilliantly. I just posted a new post on this.
OOO – There stance on homosexuality is 100% for today’s time. I have no problem with that. I don’t like the fact that people have to be clean shaven and can’t wear hats in doors though. It is a Christian University and it is acceptable for them to not embrace the dangerous homosexual lifestyle.
“dangerous homosexual lifestyle”
You are damn right it is dangerous. Just last month two teenagers were murdered because of their orientation. Dangerous indeed. “Middle ages” indeed.
Yeah two were killed last month because of attacks which are wrong. I wonder how many died from STDs or AIDS?
Middle Ages, homosexuality has been an outcast lifestyle since the time of the first governments of the world and there is a reason for that.
I’m sure you highminded liberals think highly of yourselves because you think it is great for a man to poke another man in the ass, but I don’t and a great deal of people don’t.
DMac the champion of liberty wants to stop men from poking each other in ass in an effort to prevent STDs. Okay, that makes sense, but where do we draw the line. What about straight guys that enjoy poking their girlfriends in the ass from time to time. What about straight guys who just like sleeping around. What about lesbians, their sexual practices should be relatively safe right? In my opinion, the safest practice would be for people to remain virgins until they entered into a lifelong commitment with another person and then never engage in any sexual activity outside that union. But I don’t think that’s going to fly in America so let’s not arbitrarily place the boundary in a place that limits one groups risky behavior but not others.
I don’t care what people do in there bedroom, I never said I wanted to outlaw homosexuals, so where are you coming from?
What I said is that I see nothing wrong with Bob Jones’s stance on homosexuality and other actions that violate the Christian faith.
DavidMac,
There’s enough rhetoric in your jibber jabber that you are a hypocrit. You really don’t know where or for what you stand. Right now it looks like you will be standing out(side) looking in. McCain will be the R candidate and Obama will be the D candidate. Remove your veil of hypcocrisy by taking a stand and selecting one like the good American you are. VOTE. Don’t boycott or play spoiler like Nader. And stop trying to muddy the debate with your fears and slef-righteous confused indignation.
Furthermore DavidMac,
you treat “freedom” like a zero sum concept as if someone else’s (particularly a non-R) freedom will infringe upon or reduce yours. When has an American ceased to be free or have his/her freedom challenged. Assignment for you (should you decide to accept it): Go learn the Republican script on freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom or just get the skinny from Rush on what they mean when they say that a D would affect America’s freedom and our way of life. You’ll find that it has to do with the price of gas, the way we worship, shop, play, build or knock boots in the bedroom.
I don’t buy blaming Nader for the war in Iraq. If I were Nader, I wouldn’t take the rap for that. In fact, I’m not sure that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing given what was at stake. Democrats should have done their homework and acted as representatives of the people’s will. They did neither. They bought the line about WMD’s and attempts to make purchases in Niger – even while the Italian intelligence agencies had disputed and rejected and denounced the allegation. Democrats ignored the will of the people who had not been convinced until COLIN POWELL used all of his own SOCIAL CAPITAL to make the case before the UN. Powell lied. He fell on his sword – was replaced by the Don – and moved on. After Powell’s speech and the failure of a single Dismalcrat to stand up and do the right thing – it was a rap.
Iraq was not invaded because Saddam Hussein was a tyrant. Hussein was an ally for the US who waged a proxy war against Iran for 8 years. He was granted permission by the US to invade Kuwait – and that was the pretext for the first invasion. The rationale behind the second invasion was that Hussein actually contemplated breaking the connection between Iraqi oil and the US dollar. His contemplation, like Ahmadinejad in Iran, of creating an oil bourse in which purchases would be made in euros was at the bottom of this so-called war.
Nader conceding ground in Florida would have had zero effect on Democrats waging war in this region. Given Hillary and Barack’s stated positions on Iran, this should be clear – except that the media makes this hard to decipher. Iran is discussed as an imminent threat to the US. That position is not supported by National Intelligence Estimates, nuclear inspectors, weapons experts or arms dealers. The Iranians are no less than a decade away from developing all that is needed to DELIVER a nuclear weapon on a US target.
The question of the bourse is critical. If the number 2 and number 3 exporters of crude accept payments in euros across the board (there’s more to this than time will permit), it will mitigate the need for China, Japan and other resource-poor nations to HOLD depreciating US securities (treasury securities).
As it stands, the weak dollar constitutes a tax on China and Japan which must be paid in order to purchase petroleum from Middle Eastern countries. It is a deal which has been established and sustained at gunpoint.
Ralph Nader is simply not the culprit here.
Finally, if Al Gore wanted to be President so desperately (which he clearly did not), he should have stood up on the floor of the Senate and said one goddamn word in his own defense when Maxine Waters and several others petitioned the Congress to recognize petitions from Florida. His silence at that moment was deafening.
Fuck Al Gore. He has all that he wants and needs.
MODI:
I don’t disagree with your larger point about the need to see nuances between “evil” Option A and Option B. I also agree with your larger point that the war could have been avoided.
I simply do not believe that Gore, necessarily, averts the decision to conduct a military engagement in Iraq – given Saddam Hussein’s economic decision.
What Americans do not understand about the dollar is that most nations around the world are effectively being TAXED by the US – and being taxed at gunpoint. The US maintains military bases in many, many countries. For decades after WWII, the US utilized “Stay Behind Armies” to thwart indigenous movements in EUROPE to maintain economic relationships.
Once the Bretton Woods Agreement ended and the US went off the gold standard, any nation holding large amounts of US currency loses money as the dollar depreciates. Simply, the price a foreign country pays for oil isn’t about the performance of their economy – it’s about the performance of the US economy. The US continues to emphasize defense spending because it is CRITICAL to maintaining these economic relationships…it’s got nothing to do with dictators or tyrants or democracy or anything else.
This is passive revenue streams and compound interest.
Temple, your argument is based on the assumption that gore would have gone to war. Yet Gore was an outspoken and against the war in Iraq early on when it was not all that popular. That leads me to believe otherwise. The fact that he pussied out when Maxine Waters stood up is irrelevant to the Nader question.
Nader campaigned on the idea that the “lesser of two evils is still evil”. Well less evil is still more good. I would argue that if Gore and Bush were identical on every single other issue except 1) The War and 2) The massive tax cuts for the rich (which Gore opposed)… our country would be in much better shape today.
This war will alter our domestic and foreign policy for at least another 50 years. Adding a trillion to our deficit debilitates our economy. Nader should have had the common sense and political etiquette to remove his candidacy from Florida since all polls showed it was a close and pivotal state. …And that balls that he has to go around railing against the war is far too much to take.
To me, Ralph Nader is the perfect lesson in the pitfalls of rigid idealism. Don’t get me wrong “rigid idealism” has its time and place, it is about knowing when to apply it.
“In fact, I’m not sure that Gore wouldn’t have done the same thing given what was at stake. ”
I don’t assume he would have. I admit I don’t know what he would have done – because he never took the position. I do not assume he would have ignored the challenge that Saddam Hussein posed to the hegemony and power of the dollar.
The Presidency is a constrained office. It’s not a totally “free” supreme position. It exists in relationship to other interests. After all, the President is the CEO of a bankrupt corporation – the US government. Who do you think pays all the bills around here? To suggest the Gore would not have used force against a nation with the capacity to radically alter the economic future of the nation is a bridge too far.
When it comes to Democrats and war – I think you’re giving them a pass – and I don’t quite know why. Go back to Woodrow Wilson and work back – it’s not pretty. FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton – it’s not pretty. And the list of nations which have been subjected to US violence is absolutely enormous. You have to bear in mind that, for example, the same man who signed civil rights legislation in the late 1960′s ordered the death of Patrice Lumumba in Congo – and waged a war killing thousands of people in Vietnam (LBJ). The same person who wrote a letter to King while he was incarcerated also plotted to kill Castro and Lumumba (Kennedy). The same person who played saxophone for Arsenio Hall bombed Somalia and Iraq and established sanctions and no-fly-zones where he had no legitimate business (Clinton). I could go on and on here about the Democrats and war – but it’s not essential. I see absolutely no basis for believing that Al Gore would have acted in a manner contrary to each of his predecessors when faced with a serious decision about the basis for the nation’s wealth.
I’m passing on posting a bunch of links here. Noam Chomsky is as good a source as any for the details on military engagements by Democratic presidents. If you get a chance, pick up “Deterring Democracy.”
Modi:
With or without Nader, the Bush machine was set to highjack the elections and leave Gore with his dick in his hand. If Gore gave up fighting for the citizens who voted for him so that he could win a Nobel prize and a Grammy then shame on those who voted for him.
On the second go-around, the Bush machine focused on Ohio to deliver the goods. And delivered Ohio did, at the 13th hour. Even in civilized democracies (not just in bush league newbydemocratic nations) elections are stolen. When it was done here, the MSM failed to call out the hypocrits. Shame on them. Still, Nader is largely less relevant. He’s just a contributor to the “perfect storm”.
After the last bailout of the savings and loans and then Enron, one could understand that the system has its self-correcting measures already known and ready for action. As a concession, I used to be “concerned” by the fact that the Chinese are holding so much American paper. The have stockpiled a gazillion USD in hard currency. Bear & Stern was a HVS back on Nov. 30 and ended being treated like a $2 crack ho in one year’s time. The Chinese and their abundance of USD sure ain’t laughing. That’ll teach’em to be miswely with the USD and threathen to run roughshod in Africa and the Middle East. Unless the Chinese are willing to hold on to so much bad paper, you can foresee that another “bail-out” will have to follow. And this time, te each his own worthless buck.
The boys who have run every business transaction into “the ground” (oil, Texas Rangers, etc.) have taken a surplus and converted that into a recession, a great ethnic divide–all of which “to preserve our freedom and way of life.” BUNK! No, in fact…BULLSHIT.
The Chinese are not holding dollars because they want to. They’re holding dollars because they have to. They need petroleum resources in Africa desperately – and have offered infrastructure development in trade. The US, for the first time ever, is seeking to establish a military command in AFRICA – called AFRICOM – to preclude the Chinese from gaining sufficient petroleum access to dramatically reduce their dollar reserves.
The US simply uses foreign dollars to pay for a military which maintains the status quo around energy. In addition, the US provides security to the fragile House of Saud in exchange for their commitment to buy US securities. The US, then, used the interest earned in those securities purchases to build Saudi infrastructure – through exclusive construction and engineering contracts.
The backbone of this economy is the nearly unlimited capacity of the US military to ensure foreign nations hold high dollar reserves. It’s a perfect pimp game – and one of the earliest phases began when FDR made it illegal for Americans to own gold. The government seized gold and issued cash (then “backed” by gold) in return. Today, the thing we call “money” is really nothing more than an IOU…just like the Social Security Trust.
One big scam – albeit one that has been beautifully orchestrated by Democrats and Republicans (with several bumps and bruises) over seven decades. The British went through the same process with the gold they seized from Ghana, South Africa, and their other “possessions.” The difference is that the UK is not in the SECURITY business…they’re in the BUSINESS business. They co-sign whatever the US wants to do…they lend token military support (Basra?) and they support the US in major international organizations like the World Bank-IMF-UN-etc. It’s a wonderfully symmetrical system that is not defined any more by EXCLUSIVITY, but rather INCLUSIVITY. It’s a paradox – on the surface…
The goal is to incorporate resources, persons and wealth from around the world on specific terms. There’s so much more – but I have to leave it at that for now.
Temple, your point about “Democrats” and war is not debateable. My argument was about Gore alone. I based my position off of his own words early on. Having stated that, your points about the constraints of the presidency are valid and, no, I can’t say for certain what he would have done, but even the 50% possibility is enough to have me pissed at Nader.
Steady, I hear what you are saying and certainly won’t rule out the possibility, but I’m not ready to jump on board here. Nader took almost 100,000 votes. That is not small potatoes and not that easily maskable through other corrective measures. BTW, Ohio did not get nearly the attention it should.
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